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Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 22-Apr-2023 23:27:14 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
@rrb @DutyBard @freemo @pj

> In 2020, more than 4,300 young people died in America from firearms; the figure in the Netherlands for 2019 was two.

Netherlands is a tiny little country and it says nothing about other forms of violence and accidents to see if this is an alarming anomaly.

In conversation Saturday, 22-Apr-2023 23:27:14 JST from shitposter.club permalink
- Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 22-Apr-2023 23:37:43 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
  in reply to
  @rrb @DutyBard @freemo @pj I agree it's possible we have an overall higher violent death per capita, but it's not something that can be drawn from an opinion piece from the new york times.
  
  If we assume for a moment that we do have more violence (I don't think we are #1 in that area, but for the sake of argument), the question should be how to quell the violence not how to change it's form. Why do we seem to have a higher percentage of our population willing to become violent to get what they want. Is it a higher percentage or is there a lot of recidivism? If so is there any way to reduce that? If not what needs to change in our culture? It can't simply be access to guns the problem of violence starts before you grab a weapon.
  
  In conversation Saturday, 22-Apr-2023 23:37:43 JST permalink
- RRB (rrb@qoto.org)'s status on Saturday, 22-Apr-2023 23:37:44 JST RRB
  in reply to
  @thatguyoverthere @DutyBard @freemo @pj Those comments are quite reasonable. One could do it per capita. I would suspect that overall violent death still higher in USA. We have a declining life expectancy, which is an OECD anomaly.
  
  In conversation Saturday, 22-Apr-2023 23:37:44 JST permalink
  
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- Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 22-Apr-2023 23:38:23 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
  in reply to
  @freemo @DutyBard @pj @rrb the beauty of tagging it "opinion" but portraying it as statistics
  
  In conversation Saturday, 22-Apr-2023 23:38:23 JST permalink
- 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Saturday, 22-Apr-2023 23:38:24 JST 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱
  in reply to
  - PJ
  - RRB
  - DutyBard
  @thatguyoverthere @DutyBard @pj @rrb
  Equivelant argument: vaccine deaths were 1000x more likely in countries where vaccines are legal.... yea the argument makes no sense when you really look at it
  
  In conversation Saturday, 22-Apr-2023 23:38:24 JST permalink
  
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- Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 22-Apr-2023 23:42:57 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
  in reply to
  @rrb @DutyBard @freemo @pj yeah no I get it. It's just when a writer cites statistics they should probably take care to make sure they are at least normalizing the data in some way (unless of course it helps support their opinion not to I guess)
  
  In conversation Saturday, 22-Apr-2023 23:42:57 JST permalink
- RRB (rrb@qoto.org)'s status on Saturday, 22-Apr-2023 23:42:58 JST RRB
  in reply to
  @thatguyoverthere @DutyBard @freemo @pj It is an opinion piece. He cites statistics to bolster his argument. Both are legit. He is not falsely claiming his opinions are facts, but opinions should be interpretations of facts.
  
  In conversation Saturday, 22-Apr-2023 23:42:58 JST permalink
  
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- Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 22-Apr-2023 23:46:29 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
  in reply to
  @rrb @DutyBard @freemo @pj An interesting side note. NYT headquarters was once a target of rioters, and they defended the building with privately owned automatic weapons.
  
  > At Newspaper Row, across from City Hall, Henry Raymond, owner and editor of The New York Times, averted the rioters with Gatling guns, one of which he manned. The mob, instead, attacked the headquarters of abolitionist Horace Greeley's New York Tribune until forced to flee by the Brooklyn Police.
  
  https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/harp/0801.html
  In conversation Saturday, 22-Apr-2023 23:46:29 JST permalink
  Attachments
  1. No result found on File_thumbnail lookup.
    
    On This Day: August 1, 1863
- Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 22-Apr-2023 23:48:50 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
  in reply to
  @rrb @DutyBard @freemo @pj
  
  > The declining life expectancy in the USA is shocking and worrisame.
  
  agreed. I don't think it's a single variable problem though. I think a big part is actually diet related. Diabetes and heart disease are our number 1 killers if I'm not mistaken. There are other issues too such as environmental toxicity and lack of movement contributing to poor health.
  
  In conversation Saturday, 22-Apr-2023 23:48:50 JST permalink
- RRB (rrb@qoto.org)'s status on Saturday, 22-Apr-2023 23:48:52 JST RRB
  in reply to
  @thatguyoverthere @DutyBard @freemo @pj
  Stating the stats per capita would have been better and more effective.
  I see comparing the death rates of say auto fatalities, diseases, and gun violence in the same regions eye opening. Since it is in the same geographic location, that gets rid of a lot of extraneous factors.
  The declining life expectancy in the USA is shocking and worrisame.
  
  In conversation Saturday, 22-Apr-2023 23:48:52 JST permalink
  
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- Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 22-Apr-2023 23:51:52 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
  in reply to
  @DutyBard @freemo @pj @rrb I think if we looked at an opinion piece from the New York Times around that time their position was a little bit different. I seem to remember part of a quote from the owner at the time something about "judicious use of lead".
  
  In conversation Saturday, 22-Apr-2023 23:51:52 JST permalink
- Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 22-Apr-2023 23:57:32 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
  in reply to
  @rrb @DutyBard @freemo @pj I don't think we have a great system, but it's better than giving government full control. It would be cool to get it out of the hands of pharma. Not sure government helps that happen. They seem to make it worse. Guns don't kill people without there being intent so again, no, but yes on the other points. Sadly we are a vice nation.
  
  In conversation Saturday, 22-Apr-2023 23:57:32 JST permalink
- RRB (rrb@qoto.org)'s status on Saturday, 22-Apr-2023 23:57:33 JST RRB
  in reply to
  @thatguyoverthere @DutyBard @freemo @pj Diet. Health care system. Poverty. Guns. Suicide. Alcoholism. Addiction. Overdoses. All play a part.
  Does not paint a pretty picture. No doubt there are many interacting factors.
  
  In conversation Saturday, 22-Apr-2023 23:57:33 JST permalink
- Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 22-Apr-2023 23:59:34 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
  in reply to
  @rrb @DutyBard @freemo @pj I think it's sad we can't collect and process those kinds of statistics in more real time. The most recent numbers are always a few years behind current_year.
  
  In conversation Saturday, 22-Apr-2023 23:59:34 JST permalink
- RRB (rrb@qoto.org)'s status on Saturday, 22-Apr-2023 23:59:36 JST RRB
  in reply to
  @thatguyoverthere @DutyBard @freemo @pj
  Stats from 2017: https://www.healthline.com/health/leading-causes-of-death#liver-diseases
  More recent stats I saw seemed to be only medical data.
  In conversation Saturday, 22-Apr-2023 23:59:36 JST permalink
  Attachments
  1. 12 Leading Causes of Death in the United States
    
    from Kimberly Holland
    
    Do you know all the leading causes of death in the United States? The fourth cause in our list may surprise you. The top 12 causes of death in the United States account for more than 75 percent of all deaths. Learn about each of the main causes and what can be done to prevent them.
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- Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 23-Apr-2023 00:04:44 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
  in reply to
  @rrb @DutyBard @freemo @pj I was talking about the health system not being in government hands
  
  In conversation Sunday, 23-Apr-2023 00:04:44 JST permalink
- RRB (rrb@qoto.org)'s status on Sunday, 23-Apr-2023 00:04:45 JST RRB
  in reply to
  @thatguyoverthere @DutyBard @freemo @pj I never mentioned government. I am actually a bit more concerned about fear mongering and marketing guns for self defense. I think that is inciting people to carry guns around in a state of panic. I know when I was growing up the men in my family really looked down on pistols as being inaccurate guns and not very useful. The idea of carrying around hidden pistols would have not been seen favorably at all.
  For example, you would not have road rage shootings if people were not driving around with pistols.
  
  In conversation Sunday, 23-Apr-2023 00:04:45 JST permalink
- Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 23-Apr-2023 00:09:12 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
  in reply to
  @rrb @DutyBard @freemo @pj you behave as if making guns illegal makes them poof out of existence. Someone has to collect them. There are more guns (that we know of) then people.
  
  There are so many other forms of violence and no way to expect police to protect everyone so people must be allowed the opportunity to defend themselves against unwarranted violence. Firearms equalize the equation and give less capable would be victims an opportunity to defend against an attack they otherwise couldn't. Why take that away? Why are we going in circles?
  
  In conversation Sunday, 23-Apr-2023 00:09:12 JST permalink
- Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 23-Apr-2023 00:09:49 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
  in reply to
  @rrb @DutyBard @freemo @pj and I still don't see how a disease center needs to collect violence statistics.
  
  In conversation Sunday, 23-Apr-2023 00:09:49 JST permalink
- RRB (rrb@qoto.org)'s status on Sunday, 23-Apr-2023 00:09:50 JST RRB
  in reply to
  @thatguyoverthere @DutyBard @freemo @pj It was illegal for CDC to collect gun violence statistics at all until recently.
  
  In conversation Sunday, 23-Apr-2023 00:09:50 JST permalink
- Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 23-Apr-2023 00:11:18 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
  in reply to
  @rrb @DutyBard @freemo @pj I think the need for insurance is an abomination. A doctor shouldn't be so ladden with debt that they can't charge reasonable prices for mundane and routine things . that alone would make exceptional cases more manageable without a need for insurance.
  
  In conversation Sunday, 23-Apr-2023 00:11:18 JST permalink
- RRB (rrb@qoto.org)'s status on Sunday, 23-Apr-2023 00:11:19 JST RRB
  in reply to
  @thatguyoverthere @DutyBard @freemo @pj Having lived in Europe and the USA, my main take away is that the US health insurance companies are abominations.
  
  In conversation Sunday, 23-Apr-2023 00:11:19 JST permalink
  
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- Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 23-Apr-2023 00:12:51 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
  in reply to
  @rrb @DutyBard @freemo @pj I should be able to work with a local doctor and not need a national or international intervention.
  
  In conversation Sunday, 23-Apr-2023 00:12:51 JST permalink
- Ash Chapel's Holly Jolly Tiddies (ashchapelsghost@poa.st)'s status on Sunday, 23-Apr-2023 00:46:07 JST Ash Chapel's Holly Jolly Tiddies
  in reply to
  @rrb @thatguyoverthere @freemo @pj Probably because violence isn't a disease. And wtf is 'gun violence' and how is it difference from 'pushed out of window violence', 'beaten with a bowling trophy violence' or Britain's favorite 'hacked to death with a machete violence'?
  
  In conversation Sunday, 23-Apr-2023 00:46:07 JST permalink
  
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