This, from @jbouie, is exactly right. And what makes it worse is that the cultural values so many of these parents want to force upon schools are in fact bad and immoral and, to the extent they become more widely represented in our society, the lower and more vicious our society becomes. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/28/opinion/parents-rights-republicans-florida.html?unlocked_article_code=bJ_49bcVvUI_58WtG9TLPyBVR-D4ssqQ9bXTyhHytAtFaYiaj2hATf0GVVZZuhKqZ5P5d6POzOiAhigTPVibOgjMwnW2G4-loBvQh8J7lL8DMd12sDmHNGaAA7l6h7lsH9o-1Dq1xTwHOLyttVEblZAKlhS6AS5er2cBUk5zoZJfRg8KzyrwQiUFK8mmZ-WWdD5eXONkTnPOWn6_km8e0rP8ZF11W4kG7JMAQb1VZgXMrRoI3Jg0IpYbcsZtweZ9GgslP4BD8Ma6eN5xE5cr0JRfEiUXd5zPjh6DCiK80B5MmqPHWwKTicXtszXknKSnIOnYBZ1U8QcdRpOrDDJdIXMqz3D02aHbeV6QGQ&smid=url-share
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Aaron Ross Powell ☸️ (arossp@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Mar-2023 02:33:48 JST Aaron Ross Powell ☸️ -
Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Mar-2023 22:15:49 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: @Hyolobrika @hugh @arossp @jbouie what do you mean by leftist subjects? I would think most subjects are not left or right, but the relaying of that material could be colored with a particular political slant. I would argue schools should not try to influence people politically and should instead educate children about facts. I understand that teachers will hold a particular position, but this should be kept out of the schools since they are acting on behalf of the state. -
hyolobrika@berserker.town's status on Wednesday, 29-Mar-2023 22:15:51 JST Hyolobrika @hugh
It apparently goes beyond simply protecting kids from pornography and results in the removal of books on leftist subjects at the behest of at least one parent, so mostly yes.
My preferred solution is to have parents vote on it.
@arossp @jbouie -
Hugh Young (hugh@mastodon.nz)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Mar-2023 22:15:57 JST Hugh Young So you're utterly opposed to deSantis's banning of books and restrictions on the curriculum?
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hyolobrika@berserker.town's status on Wednesday, 29-Mar-2023 22:15:58 JST Hyolobrika @hugh
OK. Yeah. Abuse is not good.
Completely disagree that it's the government's job to define what's true and force children to believe it contrary to their parents' wishes, however.
I will die on this hill.
@arossp @jbouie -
Hugh Young (hugh@mastodon.nz)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Mar-2023 22:15:59 JST Hugh Young @Hyolobrika @arossp @jbouie
Parents' rights are absolutely not absolute.
We have numerous laws to protect children from abuse, including by their parents.
One of those abuses is to teach children lies and keep them from learning (age-appropriately) about the world as it is. -
hyolobrika@berserker.town's status on Wednesday, 29-Mar-2023 22:16:00 JST Hyolobrika @arossp
>parent's rights are for parents who disagree with me, not for parents who agree with me
Maybe you're right. Maybe you (Americans) should fix that by giving *all* parents a say.Parents' rights are absolute. And states' rights/devolution/decentralisation is pretty important too.
@jbouie -
Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Mar-2023 23:49:26 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: @Hyolobrika @hugh @arossp @jbouie yeah everyone is going to inject their own personal bias, but what I mean is more about defining correctness based on a political view.
I'm still not quite sure what you mean with social justice subjects. Isn't that stuff usually worked into other course material? I remember here where I live a few years ago they were pushing a math course that was designed to create a narrative about how math was stolen from black people by white people. I think this kind of material should not be in math class. It's one thing to teach the history of Algebra as originating in Arabia/Persia for example and another thing entirely to say that evil Europeans stole the worlds math and oppressed everyone. -
hyolobrika@berserker.town's status on Wednesday, 29-Mar-2023 23:49:27 JST Hyolobrika @thatguyoverthere
It's probably impossible to teach without any political slant. For instance, the way you convey the facts and the specific facts you choose to convey are influenced by politics.The leftist subjects being censored are "social justice" concepts apparently.
@hugh @arossp @jbouie -
Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 30-Mar-2023 00:12:08 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: @Hyolobrika @hugh @arossp @jbouie
what I mean by defining correctness based on political view is using subjective interpretations of facts as the facts themselves.
> It's ultimately up to the parents.
Maybe I'm crossing threads here but I thought the start of this thread was about how "parents rights" is just a euphemism for I want to raise intolerant children. -
hyolobrika@berserker.town's status on Thursday, 30-Mar-2023 00:12:09 JST Hyolobrika @thatguyoverthere
>defining correctness based on a political view.
Not sure what you mean by that.
>I'm still not quite sure what you mean with social justice subjects
Can't find the article, sorry.
>It's one thing to teach the history of Algebra as originating in Arabia/Persia for example and another thing entirely to say that evil Europeans stole the worlds math and oppressed everyone.
I agree, but ultimately it's up to the parents.
@hugh @arossp @jbouieDisinformation Purveyor :verified_think: likes this. -
Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 30-Mar-2023 00:19:12 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: @Hyolobrika @hugh @arossp @jbouie sure if people want to teach their own kids things that I don't that's on them. not having the state mandate and fund that "education" seems like a pretty reasonable middle ground :shrug: -
hyolobrika@berserker.town's status on Thursday, 30-Mar-2023 00:19:13 JST Hyolobrika @thatguyoverthere
If it's up to the parents, it's up to the parents. "Parent's rights" works both ways.
@hugh @arossp @jbouie -
Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 31-Mar-2023 01:22:08 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: @hugh @Hyolobrika @arossp @jbouie no one said children should be isolated from the world, but parents definitely have both the right and the responsibility to protect and educate their children, and a certain amount of autonomy in deciding what that means. -
Hugh Young (hugh@mastodon.nz)'s status on Friday, 31-Mar-2023 01:22:09 JST Hugh Young @Hyolobrika @thatguyoverthere @arossp @jbouie
No. Children need to get another perspective on the world than just their parents'. They need to be exposed to the marketplace of ideas.
Nothing but parents' views 24/7/365 is how cults survive. -
hyolobrika@berserker.town's status on Friday, 31-Mar-2023 01:22:10 JST Hyolobrika -
Hugh Young (hugh@mastodon.nz)'s status on Friday, 31-Mar-2023 01:22:11 JST Hugh Young @Hyolobrika @thatguyoverthere @arossp @jbouie
But is all of children's education up to the parents? You"re begging (assuming your preferred answer to) the question.
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Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 31-Mar-2023 19:41:31 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: @Hyolobrika @hugh supporters of critical race theory like to point out that the theory isn't taught in schools. What they mean is that the "theory" aspect of it is not being taught. The reality is that theory is being **applied** in schools rather than taught. I don't have any comment on what books are or aren't allowed in Florida schools (not a Floridian), but I do not think CRT should color our education system (no pun intended). I think it's disingenuous to claim it's not being taught in schools because the point isn't to teach people about the theory it's to move them to support a particular social cause. The theory helps educators move people in that direction when applied. The problem I have is that truthfulness is secondary to the social cause, and the social cause is divisive. What CRT supporters want is for white people to acknowledge their privilege and prejudice. The truth is that not all white people are privileged [or racially prejudicial], and assuming so is actually prejudice (albeit acceptable in the eyes of CRT). -
hyolobrika@berserker.town's status on Friday, 31-Mar-2023 19:41:32 JST Hyolobrika @hugh
What is CRT then? I know that sort of thing does happen, even if it's not called CRT and is not taught in schools.
>The books being banned do little more than describe accurately what slavery and segregation were, and how they were overcome.
I have heard some of them do. That's the sort of thing I meant when I was talking about leftist subjects being censored with @thatguyoverthere. -
Hugh Young (hugh@mastodon.nz)'s status on Friday, 31-Mar-2023 19:41:33 JST Hugh Young "blaming today's cis het white men for crimes committed by yesterday's cis het white men."
is a right-wing parody of what CRT (which is not taught in schools) is. The books being banned do little more than describe accurately what slavery and segregation were, and how they were overcome. -
hyolobrika@berserker.town's status on Friday, 31-Mar-2023 19:41:34 JST Hyolobrika @hugh
I have nothing against actual social justice. I do (although its not really relevant to the issue) have something against "social justice" that consists of blaming today's cis het white men for crimes committed by yesterday's cis het white men. But I think parents' should be allowed to teach it (or have it taught) to their kids. Same for the kind of bigotry you disagree with. -
Hugh Young (hugh@mastodon.nz)'s status on Friday, 31-Mar-2023 19:41:35 JST Hugh Young @Hyolobrika Not "social justice", social justice. What have you got against social justice? You think kids should be taught bigotry?
It's not "leftist" to teach kids that all people are equal and that being different isn't wrong.
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