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1. Gabe (gabriel@mk.gabe.rocks)'s status on Monday, 02-Dec-2024 01:15:50 JST Gabe

   in reply to

   • william.maggos

   @wjmaggos@liberal.city
   Sounds like you're making the argument that vaccines are a net-negative for the individual but a net-positive for society. (Or presenting it as a middle-ground for understanding)
   Even if you take that at face value, there are still ethics concerns no matter how inevitable the downsides are.
   
   There's no bar of safety or efficacy that justifies forcing people in to medical procedures. But if you're fine with eroding medical ethics for "safety" fighting against people pushing for data and transparency just makes it look nefarious.
   
   Democracy and liberal values can only exist in a society where institutions aren't perceived to be malicious. People can whine about misinformation and foreign propaganda but you always have to ask what these institutions themselves are doing to feed the fire.
   
   I say this as somebody who never gave vaccines any thought until they made a bunch in a year and started firing people for not taking "it's safe for everybody, no matter your health situation, but it doesn't work until everybody takes it" at face value.

   • † top dog :pedomustdie: likes this.
   • william.maggos (wjmaggos@liberal.city)'s status on Monday, 02-Dec-2024 01:15:51 JST william.maggos

     To all the antivax folks, y'all should learn something about pollution. We force a lot of people to get hurt or die so that the rest of us can survive longer or live lives less impaired. Such trade-offs are unavoidable in the large societies whose benefits we take for granted. And it's why we have democracy with protections for minority perspectives, so that people can argue out these different concerns and find compromises. But that requires shared facts and civility. #LiberalValues