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1. pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 16:06:25 JST pistolero
   Aaaaaaand...there we go, X got OOM'd. Plus nouveau is fucking up again.
   • † top dog :pedomustdie: likes this.
   • nyanide :nyancat_rainbow::nyancat_body::nyancat_face: repeated this.
   • pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 16:06:40 JST pistolero

     in reply to
     I fucking love $current_year Linux. To everyone that looks at me weird when I tell them I'm half-way to just installing Plan 9 and running the Linux fluoride in VMs or on laptops: I'm sorry, you were all correct, it's actually good to have all of these idiot problems that Linux didn't have ten years ago, I'm glad the YOLD idiots have gotten to decide everything, I LOVE THE FLUORIDATED CORN SYRUP BOOSTERS
     † top dog :pedomustdie: and nyanide :nyancat_rainbow::nyancat_body::nyancat_face: repeated this.
   • pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 16:06:40 JST pistolero

     in reply to
     It's really great that sound and video and really basic shit stopped working so that RedHat and Ubuntu could make their shit closer to store-brand MacOS. I love that this was also so important that really basic shit like "installing a library" was worth breaking, too. I hate that Linux was a Unix for all of these years, I hate that I had a pretty reliable system for two decades, I just wanna run something that is shittier than Unix, uglier than a Mac, and compatible with less shit than a Windows machine.Ao1Sbm6whnJ7BLjxLs
     † top dog :pedomustdie: likes this.
     † top dog :pedomustdie: repeated this.
   • vic (vic@seal.cafe)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 16:06:58 JST vic

     in reply to
     @p "hey you know systemd really isn't that bad once you kind of get used to it and learn the syntax, maybe it's not so bad to have a single thing developed in a vacuum by a glorified Microsoft employee and mysteriously adopted by every major distro at once that owns the whole system, I mean if they wanted to attack you they could just do it anyway a different way right??"
     † top dog :pedomustdie: likes this.
     † top dog :pedomustdie: repeated this.
   • pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 16:07:02 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • vic
     @vic systemd, avahi, PulseAudio, dbus, all of which are Poettering's fault, and then there's all the other bullshit, the gtk3, Wayland, boost, a million shitty parallel language-specific package managers, a million shitty build systems, etc.
     † top dog :pedomustdie: likes this.
   • MK-ULTRA (diamondmind@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 16:07:08 JST MK-ULTRA

     in reply to
     @p what is costco and why are they selling hot dogs so cheap?
     1731552569887642.jpg
   • pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 16:07:08 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • MK-ULTRA
     @DiamondMind It is like grocery wholesale. They sell the hotdogs cheap as a loss-leader.
     gotthatdog.jpg
     † top dog :pedomustdie: likes this.
   • pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 16:20:14 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • :btrfly: anime graf mays 🛰️🪐
     @graf I already did that with CRUX but for some reason, the "Save" dialog box has started crashing the entire seamonkey.
     † top dog :pedomustdie: likes this.
   • :btrfly: anime graf mays 🛰️🪐 (graf@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 16:20:15 JST :btrfly: anime graf mays 🛰️🪐

     in reply to
     @p Pete brother just install Gentoo one time and save the image (or better yet, make a stage 4 tarball) and deploy it everywhere. Then *never* touch it again
   • pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 16:20:28 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • :btrfly: anime graf mays 🛰️🪐
     @graf But even the best Linux is still Linux.
     † top dog :pedomustdie: likes this.
   • pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 17:04:36 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • :btrfly: anime graf mays 🛰️🪐
     @graf Oh, shit, okay, lemme head over there. I'm watching something stupid happen on the screen that usually has IRC.
     † top dog :pedomustdie: likes this.
   • :btrfly: anime graf mays 🛰️🪐 (graf@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 17:04:37 JST :btrfly: anime graf mays 🛰️🪐

     in reply to
     @p ill get on irc if you want a vent session since those always help me. i bought some hardware anyway so maybe i should. see you in a few mins
   • :btrfly: anime graf mays 🛰️🪐 (graf@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 17:06:36 JST :btrfly: anime graf mays 🛰️🪐

     in reply to
     @p but gentoo gives you the ability to control your experience moreso than any other mainstream so it is invaluable to me. 32MB ram usage on poast webserver on boot vs 1.2G with ubungoo
   • pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 17:06:36 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • :btrfly: anime graf mays 🛰️🪐
     @graf CRUX the same advantages. All source-based, easy to hack. I think it's easier to hack than Gentoo, YMMV.
     † top dog :pedomustdie: and nyanide :nyancat_rainbow::nyancat_body::nyancat_face: like this.
   • pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 17:19:39 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • MK-ULTRA
     @DiamondMind
     los_angeles_2029.gif
     † top dog :pedomustdie: likes this.
   • MK-ULTRA (diamondmind@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 17:19:40 JST MK-ULTRA

     in reply to
     @p 2̷̧̡̨̢̢̨̢̡̨̧̧͈̪̖͖̺͎̥̗̘͍̦͈̤̠̯̰͙̼̩̜̜͈͚̦̼̳̫͙͙̥̫̝̪͖̹̞̳̠̗̟͖̭̪̯̗̰̭̰͓͔͔̠͇̟̘̰͖͕̪̯͚̣̻̗͖̖͖̜̼̬̰̣̜͔̗̮͖̼̩̠̫̝̼̝̫̣͕͓̥̞͈̰̯̳͔͇̖̻̘̰͎̺̫̮̥͓̤͎̳̪̦̼̼̜̯̜̖͚̟̻̜̼͎̟̯̪̞̙̩̼͚̤̬̱̤͎̙̪͕̝̘̻̗͔̼̩͈̦̬͍͉͚̿͊̾̋̈́̃͊͊̆̓̆̎̿̀̉̉̊̈́̎̑̚͘͜͜͜͝͝͠͝͝ͅͅ9̷̢̨̢̧̡̨̨̛̞͈̻͚̬͙̳̫̠͈̦͙̜̪̜͇̣̱̥͉̞̬̗͖̗̤̗̺̱͖͈͙̝͍͙̼̮̬̠̻̥͓͈͍̻̠̙̜̬̱͔̝̞̹̤̙̘͓͇̦̙͖͖͕͙͈̝͙͙̗̖̤͙̙̘͔̝̗͎̹̖̮̫̗̞̠̹̩͎̱̤͍͙͐̏̊̈́͊̇͗̈́͊̉̿͑̏̏̿͂͌̈̓́̽̏̈͗̓͆̌̃͊͌̊́͂͐̌͂́͒̓̈́̀̒̋́̇͆̃̒̃̍̑̿̋͌̓̓̕͘̕̚̕͜͜͜͜͜͝͝͝͝ͅͅ2̷̨̧̢̡̡̢̧̧̧̢̢̡̢̨̧̧̨̢̛̛̬͇͚̖͎̰̯̭̩̻̦͓̦̻̠̣̫̞̭̟̺̳͕͖̹̞̣̱͖̮̳̖̗͚̫̰̯̦̪͍̬͕̖̜̩͙̤͇̺̙̹̖̻͇̭̟̰͖̪͓͖͈͓͉̪͕̺͎͖̟̠̱̗̯͈̘̦̳̙̳̼̺͕͍̯̟͎̠͗͐̑̒̽̐̈́̏̎̃͒̀̑̓͛͗́͛̌̍̂̿̍͊̍̎̽̇̓̄́͆̌͜͜͜͝͝͝ͅͅṡ̷̛̿̒̇̍̾͗̔͋͆͂́̔͑̔͒͊̆̍̀̈́̉̿͑̏̀̚̕͝͝
     _
     ¶×§y–––—–2̷̧̡̨̢̢̨̢̡̨̧̧͈̪̖͖̺͎̥̗̘͍̦͈̤̠̯̰͙̼̩̜̜͈͚̦̼̳̫͙͙̥̫̝̪͖̹̞̳̠̗̟͖̭̪̯̗̰̭̰͓͔͔̠͇̟̘̰͖͕̪̯͚̣̻̗͖̖͖̜̼̬̰̣̜͔̗̮͖̼̩̠̫̝̼̝̫̣͕͓̥̞͈̰̯̳͔͇̖̻̘̰͎̺̫̮̥͓̤͎̳̪̦̼̼̜̯̜̖͚̟̻̜̼͎̟̯̪̞̙̩̼͚̤̬̱̤͎̙̪͕̝̘̻̗͔̼̩͈̦̬͍͉͚̿͊̾̋̈́̃͊͊̆̓̆̎̿̀̉̉̊̈́̎̑̚͘͜͜͜͝͝͠͝͝ͅͅ9̷̢̨̢̧̡̨̨̛̞͈̻͚̬͙̳̫̠͈̦͙̜̪̜͇̣̱̥͉̞̬̗͖̗̤̗̺̱͖͈͙̝͍͙̼̮̬̠̻̥͓͈͍̻̠̙̜̬̱͔̝̞̹̤̙̘͓͇̦̙͖͖͕͙͈̝͙͙̗̖̤͙̙̘͔̝̗͎̹̖̮̫̗̞̠̹̩͎̱̤͍͙͐̏̊̈́͊̇͗̈́͊̉̿͑̏̏̿͂͌̈̓́̽̏̈͗̓͆̌̃͊͌̊́͂͐̌͂́͒̓̈́̀̒̋́̇͆̃̒̃̍̑̿̋͌̓̓̕͘̕̚̕͜͜͜͜͜͝͝͝͝ͅͅ
     ¶×§¶ao _———–—–2̷̧̡̨̢̢̨̢̡̨̧̧͈̪̖͖̺͎̥̗̘͍̦͈̤̠̯̰͙̼̩̜̜͈͚̦̼̳̫͙͙̥̫̝̪͖̹̞̳̠̗̟͖̭̪̯̗̰̭̰͓͔͔̠͇̟̘̰͖͕̪̯͚̣̻̗͖̖͖̜̼̬̰̣̜͔̗̮͖̼̩̠̫̝̼̝̫̣͕͓̥̞͈̰̯̳͔͇̖̻̘̰͎̺̫̮̥͓̤͎̳̪̦̼̼̜̯̜̖͚̟̻̜̼͎̟̯̪̞̙̩̼͚̤̬̱̤͎̙̪͕̝̘̻̗͔̼̩͈̦̬͍͉͚̿͊̾̋̈́̃͊͊̆̓̆̎̿̀̉̉̊̈́̎̑̚͘͜͜͜͝͝͠͝͝ͅͅ9̷̢̨̢̧̡̨̨̛̞͈̻͚̬͙̳̫̠͈̦͙̜̪̜͇̣̱̥͉̞̬̗͖̗̤̗̺̱͖͈͙̝͍͙̼̮̬̠̻̥͓͈͍̻̠̙̜̬̱͔̝̞̹̤̙̘͓͇̦̙͖͖͕͙͈̝͙͙̗̖̤͙̙̘͔̝̗͎̹̖̮̫̗̞̠̹̩͎̱̤͍͙͐̏̊̈́͊̇͗̈́͊̉̿͑̏̏̿͂͌̈̓́̽̏̈͗̓͆̌̃͊͌̊́͂͐̌͂́͒̓̈́̀̒̋́̇͆̃̒̃̍̑̿̋͌̓̓̕͘̕̚̕͜͜͜͜͜͝͝͝͝ͅͅ
     ¶——–—–2̷̧̡̨̢̢̨̢̡̨̧̧͈̪̖͖̺͎̥̗̘͍̦͈̤̠̯̰͙̼̩̜̜͈͚̦̼̳̫͙͙̥̫̝̪͖̹̞̳̠̗̟͖̭̪̯̗̰̭̰͓͔͔̠͇̟̘̰͖͕̪̯͚̣̻̗͖̖͖̜̼̬̰̣̜͔̗̮͖̼̩̠̫̝̼̝̫̣͕͓̥̞͈̰̯̳͔͇̖̻̘̰͎̺̫̮̥͓̤͎̳̪̦̼̼̜̯̜̖͚̟̻̜̼͎̟̯̪̞̙̩̼͚̤̬̱̤͎̙̪͕̝̘̻̗͔̼̩͈̦̬͍͉͚̿͊̾̋̈́̃͊͊̆̓̆̎̿̀̉̉̊̈́̎̑̚͘͜͜͜͝͝͠͝͝ͅͅ9̷̢̨̢̧̡̨̨̛̞͈̻͚̬͙̳̫̠͈̦͙̜̪̜͇̣̱̥͉̞̬̗͖̗̤̗̺̱͖͈͙̝͍͙̼̮̬̠̻̥͓͈͍̻̠̙̜̬̱͔̝̞̹̤̙̘͓͇̦̙͖͖͕͙͈̝͙͙̗̖̤͙̙̘͔̝̗͎̹̖̮̫̗̞̠̹̩͎̱̤͍͙͐̏̊̈́͊̇͗̈́͊̉̿͑̏̏̿͂͌̈̓́̽̏̈͗̓͆̌̃͊͌̊́͂͐̌͂́͒̓̈́̀̒̋́̇͆̃̒̃̍̑̿̋͌̓̓̕͘̕̚̕͜͜͜͜͜͝͝͝͝ͅͅ
     ¶×§¶¶——–—–2̷̧̡̨̢̢̨̢̡̨̧̧͈̪̖͖̺͎̥̗̘͍̦͈̤̠̯̰͙̼̩̜̜͈͚̦̼̳̫͙͙̥̫̝̪͖̹̞̳̠̗̟͖̭̪̯̗̰̭̰͓͔͔̠͇̟̘̰͖͕̪̯͚̣̻̗͖̖͖̜̼̬̰̣̜͔̗̮͖̼̩̠̫̝̼̝̫̣͕͓̥̞͈̰̯̳͔͇̖̻̘̰͎̺̫̮̥͓̤͎̳̪̦̼̼̜̯̜̖͚̟̻̜̼͎̟̯̪̞̙̩̼͚̤̬̱̤͎̙̪͕̝̘̻̗͔̼̩͈̦̬͍͉͚̿͊̾̋̈́̃͊͊̆̓̆̎̿̀̉̉̊̈́̎̑̚͘͜͜͜͝͝͠͝͝ͅͅ9̷̢̨̢̧̡̨̨̛̞͈̻͚̬͙̳̫̠͈̦͙̜̪̜͇̣̱̥͉̞̬̗͖̗̤̗̺̱͖͈͙̝͍͙̼̮̬̠̻̥͓͈͍̻̠̙̜̬̱͔̝̞̹̤̙̘͓͇̦̙͖͖͕͙͈̝͙͙̗̖̤͙̙̘͔̝̗͎̹̖̮̫̗̞̠̹̩͎̱̤͍͙͐̏̊̈́͊̇͗̈́͊̉̿͑̏̏̿͂͌̈̓́̽̏̈͗̓͆̌̃͊͌̊́͂͐̌͂́͒̓̈́̀̒̋́̇͆̃̒̃̍̑̿̋͌̓̓̕͘̕̚̕͜͜͜͜͜͝͝͝͝ͅͅ
     ¶×o _–—–2̷̧̡̨̢̢̨̢̡̨̧̧͈̪̖͖̺͎̥̗̘͍̦͈̤̠̯̰͙̼̩̜̜͈͚̦̼̳̫͙͙̥̫̝̪͖̹̞̳̠̗̟͖̭̪̯̗̰̭̰͓͔͔̠͇̟̘̰͖͕̪̯͚̣̻̗͖̖͖̜̼̬̰̣̜͔̗̮͖̼̩̠̫̝̼̝̫̣͕͓̥̞͈̰̯̳͔͇̖̻̘̰͎̺̫̮̥͓̤͎̳̪̦̼̼̜̯̜̖͚̟̻̜̼͎̟̯̪̞̙̩̼͚̤̬̱̤͎̙̪͕̝̘̻̗͔̼̩͈̦̬͍͉͚̿͊̾̋̈́̃͊͊̆̓̆̎̿̀̉̉̊̈́̎̑̚͘͜͜͜͝͝͠͝͝ͅͅ9̷̢̨̢̧̡̨̨̛̞͈̻͚̬͙̳̫̠͈̦͙̜̪̜͇̣̱̥͉̞̬̗͖̗̤̗̺̱͖͈͙̝͍͙̼̮̬̠̻̥͓͈͍̻̠̙̜̬̱͔̝̞̹̤̙̘͓͇̦̙͖͖͕͙͈̝͙͙̗̖̤͙̙̘͔̝̗͎̹̖̮̫̗̞̠̹̩͎̱̤͍͙͐̏̊̈́͊̇͗̈́͊̉̿͑̏̏̿͂͌̈̓́̽̏̈͗̓͆̌̃͊͌̊́͂͐̌͂́͒̓̈́̀̒̋́̇͆̃̒̃̍̑̿̋͌̓̓̕͘̕̚̕͜͜͜͜͜͝͝͝͝ͅͅ
     1_SSABfkBUeXyoqAArPfuHNg.jpg
   • pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 17:53:56 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • m0xEE
     • vic
     @m0xee @vic
     
     > What's wrong with dbus though?
     
     FSE's text limit is 16,384 characters. I don't think I need a daemon for a browser to run, I sure as hell don't know why the browser should crash if the daemon is killed.
     
     > Something has to fill the role of IPC
     
     Processes have to communicate, sure. dbus is not the only answer, or the best answer. Sun had an answer and people hate the rpcbind shit.
     
     > to pass messages between daemons and other software
     
     Sit on dbus-monitor a while and look at exactly what passes through.
     
     > that isn't… you know, a named socket — something higher level
     
     No, you do not. For most of these terrible pieces of software, people say this sort of thing, and sometimes the best alternative to a terrible thing is "nothing". I can ask you why you need that and you can say "Because otherwise we couldn't have $x" and I tell you that I don't have $x (or maybe I have $x but I don't want it but shit refuses to build without it). It is an overengineered piece of shit, it is a freedesktop.org bureaucratic nightmare, it provides literally nothing that I want and compels a lot of things that I do not want.
     
     If we take it as a given that a real problem is being solved, even then "dbus is a solution to a problem" doesn't necessarily mean that it is the only solution. There are a lot of ways to achieve interprocess communication. A named socket is fine for Linux, terrible programs spew way too much information down dbus and it's another piece of shit tool in Lennart's open attempt to create a standard that no one needs in order to ensure that RedHat controls the ecosystem.
     
     It's like a DE. I don't want a DE. People ask how you can have a widget tray without a DE. I don't want a widget tray. Increasingly, I don't want Linux, because all of the dumb shit that is present in Windows or OSX is getting added, as if the HCI problem were solved and there's only one way to do any of this. (Joke's on anyone that made that argument, because OSX is turning into iOS and Windows is turning into a shitty Flash website from 2002. Evidently the final word in user interfaces has not been spoken, or there wouldn't be any changes.)
     
     > Even OpenWRT — which doesn't have all the luxuries of a full-blown system, has ubus.
     
     It has that to support the stupid web GUI, and the web GUI breaks if you uninstall dnsmasq, which you might do because the stupid web GUI completely ignores you if you tell it that you already have a DHCP server and you want it to just route packets, and then you tell it to just not start dnsmasq and it ignores you anyway so you have to actually remove dnsmasq. So if you remove dnsmasq then the stupid web GUI actually crashes on startup.
     † top dog :pedomustdie: likes this.
   • m0xEE (m0xee@social.librem.one)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 17:53:57 JST m0xEE

     in reply to

     • vic

     @p
     What's wrong with dbus though? Something has to fill the role of IPC to pass messages between daemons and other software that isn't… you know, a named socket — something higher level 😅
     Even OpenWRT — which doesn't have all the luxuries of a full-blown system, has ubus.
     @vic

   • pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 17:56:22 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • :btrfly: anime graf mays 🛰️🪐
     @graf :bigbosssalute:
     † top dog :pedomustdie: likes this.
   • :btrfly: anime graf mays 🛰️🪐 (graf@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 17:56:23 JST :btrfly: anime graf mays 🛰️🪐

     in reply to
     @p been using gentoo since 4chan was in diapers, its easy for me and its what i know just like crux or even plan9 is your go-to. i think it's based both of us can choose to use distributions that focus on knowledge and choice rather than shoe-horned in pronouns in my calculator
   • :gnu:+bonifartius 𒂼𒄄 (bonifartius@qoto.org)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 18:00:35 JST :gnu:+bonifartius 𒂼𒄄

     in reply to

     @p i had that OOM problem with the xorg intel driver. the solution was to use kms or how it's called. can't really blame nouveau for nvidias fuckery ;)

     the first own install i used was suse 9.0 iirc. everything worked as well or better than today. including printing i had set up using the graphical UI.

   • pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 18:00:35 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • :gnu:+bonifartius 𒂼𒄄
     @bonifartius Oh, this was nouveau fucking up because X got OOM'd because Seamonkey's build scripts were running 16 C++ compilers and they were eating all the memory.
     † top dog :pedomustdie: likes this.
   • MK-ULTRA (diamondmind@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 18:42:26 JST MK-ULTRA

     in reply to

     • 御園はくい
     • MK-ULTRA
     @hakui @p and then it was happooning. I walked into the Costco, nodding to the security guard. I walked over to the frozen food aisle which had huge rows of frozen foods stacked up about 10 feet tall, and i put a few ball bearings under the platforms. A family with 10 children came walking by and then the entire shelves collapsed on top of them, and they started screaming.
     
     I ran off and ran to the hot dog area and jumped over the counter, punching the cash register clerk in the face. Then I ran back to the kitchen area and turned over the oil stove, spilling boiling oil all over the floor, and it scorched the shoes and feets of all the mexican workers who started roaring in painful agony. I was wearing heat resistant knee high boots so I was not effected. I picked up three Hot Dog Meals, and walked out, while the customers ran all over the place, screaming and confused.
     
     I walked right out of the store, hopping into my convertible Camaro, and peeled out of the parking lot, leaving a huge black skid marks on the concrete.
     † top dog :pedomustdie: likes this.
   • MK-ULTRA (diamondmind@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 18:42:27 JST MK-ULTRA

     in reply to

     • 御園はくい
     @hakui @p ready to become a legend at Costco?
   • pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 18:42:28 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • 御園はくい
     • MK-ULTRA
     @hakui @DiamondMind Yeah, that's what a loss-leader is.
   • 御園はくい (hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 18:42:28 JST 御園はくい

     in reply to

     • MK-ULTRA
     @p @DiamondMind nrhd
   • 御園はくい (hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 18:42:29 JST 御園はくい

     in reply to

     • MK-ULTRA
     @p @DiamondMind they're losing money with every hot dog sale and hope to make it up from somewhere else
   • m0xEE (m0xee@social.librem.one)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 18:56:20 JST m0xEE

     in reply to

     • vic

     @p @vic
     > If I kill dbus, a bunch of shit crashes.
     I suppose it depends on the distro, how deeply it integrates it and how modular it assumes it to be.
     I have just restarted dbus in my Void system (where I even have elogind) — literally nothing started falling apart, no user-facing software crashed or got terminated, bluetoothd got restarted — that's it 🤷

   • pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 18:56:20 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • m0xEE
     • vic
     @m0xee @vic
     
     > I suppose it depends on the distro, how deeply it integrates it and how modular it assumes it to be.
     
     No, it's how dbus works. You kill dbus and Firefox crashes, and this is every distro I have tried it on. This is intentional behavior, because dbus is designed for DE users and if the Windows taskbar crashes, Windows will restart it. The idea is that if dbus crashes, your session is broken and your xdm or whatever should restart your DE.
     
     > I have just restarted dbus in my Void system (where I even have elogind) — literally nothing started falling apart,
     
     If you are talking about the system dbus, it's the same program that is used to run a user-level dbus. I am not running the system-level dbus.
     † top dog :pedomustdie: likes this.
   • m0xEE (m0xee@social.librem.one)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 18:56:21 JST m0xEE

     in reply to

     • vic

     @p @vic
     > It's like a DE. I don't want a DE. People ask how you can have a widget tray without a DE. I don't want a widget tray.
     Same here, I have machines that do not have dbus, but I have no problem running it on the ones where I can benefit from it — seriously, among these things it's the only one I have zero problems with. Overengineered — sure, but it's nowhere near as buggy as systemd and it's fully modular: you can easily replace it with another thing and you can even not have it at all.

   • pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 18:56:21 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • m0xEE
     • vic
     @m0xee @vic
     
     > I have no problem running it
     
     Like you have a choice. I'd be delighted if I could remove it from this system but there are programs that I need to execute and they are tied to gtk.
     
     > on the ones where I can benefit from it
     
     That is exactly my point: I don't know what benefits you mean but I do not think they exist and if they do, they probably apply to things that I don't want anyway. We could enumerate the benefits and I could explain why I don't want them.
     
     > it's nowhere near as buggy as systemd
     
     If I kill dbus, a bunch of shit crashes. That is a bug, and it is a bug that they will never fix. Even with a named socket, usually you'll write code to reconnect if it goes missing instead of fucking segfaulting.
   • pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 19:05:41 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • Snacks
     @snacks No matter how many times I say "I actually sent them some money a long time ago", someone will ask this every time I say I am sick of Linux. I stopped using Haiku when I got really into Inferno, because Haiku couldn't run Inferno at the time.
     
     I have played with it somewhat more recently. Unfortunately, Haiku is no longer meaningfully distinct from any other POSIX system, the wifi driver still crashes on my Thinkpad, and I don't like the UI. 9front has a working wifi driver.
   • Snacks (snacks@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 19:05:42 JST Snacks

     in reply to
     @p have you considered haiku?
     nyanide :nyancat_rainbow::nyancat_body::nyancat_face: repeated this.
   • † top dog :pedomustdie: (dcc@annihilation.social)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 19:46:41 JST † top dog :pedomustdie:

     in reply to

     • m0xEE
     • vic
     @m0xee @p @vic try uploading a image without dbus(it does not work)
   • m0xEE (m0xee@social.librem.one)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 19:46:42 JST m0xEE

     in reply to

     • vic

     @p @vic
     I just tried stopping it (instead of restarting) and killing all instances of dbus-daemon running as user — again, nothing special happened, except for… yeah, Firefox — it didn't segfault though, terminated gracefully with something like "channel closed".
     Ironically, I can start Firefox again without dbus running, dbus doesn't get spawned and FF works fine.
     Well, what can I say… It's odd, it's lame, but so is its developers design decision.

   • m0xEE (m0xee@social.librem.one)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 19:46:42 JST m0xEE

     in reply to

     • vic

     @p @vic
     Does it have to do specifically with dbus? Of course not, FF does a plethora of questionable things, like audio input not working in FF without PulseAudio, so I have to use apulse — luckily the output works with alsa.
     I agree with you — it should be optional, but IMO it doesn't make dbus itself bad.
     I probably wouldn't even have a problem with systemd — were it modular (and less bug-infested😏), BTW this would fit nicely with your approach: don't need the horse — throw it the fuck out!

   • m0xEE (m0xee@social.librem.one)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 20:02:43 JST m0xEE

     in reply to

     • † top dog :pedomustdie:
     • vic

     @dcc @p @vic
     Sent from Firefox (without dbus).

   • † top dog :pedomustdie: (dcc@annihilation.social)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 20:02:43 JST † top dog :pedomustdie:

     in reply to

     • m0xEE
     • vic
     @m0xee @p @vic (its still on)
   • pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 14:56:06 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • m0xEE
     • vic
     @m0xee @vic
     
     > FF does a plethora of questionable things,
     
     I was listing questionable things from Linux, dbus was one. Firefox behaves badly around dbus. I have not been under the impression that Firefox was good since the pre-3.6 days.
     
     > I probably wouldn't even have a problem with systemd — were it modular
     
     The size of the surface and the privileged mode of operation means that you can't have it talking to the network, and Lennart made it talk to the network, then he made it speak a dozen protocols and then he put an XML parser and a JSON parser in it. Webservers give up root as soon as they have the port open because you open the door if you don't, and that's one protocol (HTTP) and it's generally just the server side. But he's got it speaking client and server for HTTP and DNS and a pile of other protocols and it isn't just root, it's init, and it links against so many libraries that a meaningful audit of the code for security can never be undertaken. There is no safe mode of operation for it, there's no securing it, it's broken by design. There's not anything to salvage.
     
     > BTW this would fit nicely with your approach: don't need the horse — throw it the fuck out!
     
     Or, like...if you don't want horses, but you let horses in, people will build around the horses and then you'll end up stuck with the horses until you switch to an OS that didn't shove horses in.
     nyanide :nyancat_rainbow::nyancat_body::nyancat_face: likes this.
   • pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 16:19:27 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • m0xEE
     • vic
     @m0xee @vic
     
     > I don't know — I didn't write it myself, I'm using whatever Void's xbps-src is giving me🤷
     
     I mean, it should be possible to find out, right?
     
     > the about:config preference to disable WebP support, that Mozilla has removed,
     
     Holy fucking shit. The only mitigation against the stupid webp exploit was to turn webp off.
     † top dog :pedomustdie: likes this.
   • pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 16:19:28 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • m0xEE
     • vic
     @m0xee @vic
     
     > dbus doesn't get spawned and FF works fine.
     
     What's in your mozconfig?
   • m0xEE (m0xee@social.librem.one)'s status on Friday, 15-Nov-2024 16:19:28 JST m0xEE

     in reply to

     • vic

     @p @vic
     I don't know — I didn't write it myself, I'm using whatever Void's xbps-src is giving me🤷
     The only thing that might be different in Firefox on this machine from the standard issue Void binaries, as I still had to rebuild it because I patch the about:config preference to disable WebP support, that Mozilla has removed, back in, is that it's built without PulseAudio support — I do not enforce it for every software I run, but the flag to disable it is set globally and it gets picked up.