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1. :back_from_gab: :musashi_berseker: :abigail_williams: :musashi: :benienma: :astolfo: :chloe: 🏆🏆 winner of the Holy Gab War and Holy Poast War (zemichi@bae.st)'s status on Saturday, 20-Jul-2024 14:04:30 JST :back_from_gab: :musashi_berseker: :abigail_williams: :musashi: :benienma: :astolfo: :chloe: 🏆🏆 winner of the Holy Gab War and Holy Poast War
   The Yasuke stuff is pretty funny.
   
   I'm supposed to believe that thousands of years of recorded Japanese written down but a single white guy was able to figure out the secret history of a black samurai while hundreds of Japanese historians could not.
   
   Obviously a lot of people were in this con, I wonder if anybody in Japan complained about this previously?
   GS5nAoVbYAAkEL-.jpeg
   • luithe and New Janny in Town like this.
   • Dowito (dowito@baraag.net)'s status on Saturday, 20-Jul-2024 16:41:54 JST Dowito

     in reply to

     @zemichi
     It amaze me how a non peer-review book about a African samurai have been taken that seriously I mean if you search in scholar and you find noting that should already cast a doubt. Well can that is not present in that database but they could have gone to the University site and verified if it was in the article section.

     Then again no one have though to confront it with the record of the Gesuite which own Yasuke, and Gesuite record are far more detailed

   • チャノさん (japananon@mitra.anon-kenkai.com)'s status on Saturday, 20-Jul-2024 16:41:54 JST チャノさん

     in reply to

     • Dowito

     @Dowito @zemichi It's not surprising when you consider the people already knew what answer they wanted before they started looking

   • チャノさん (japananon@mitra.anon-kenkai.com)'s status on Saturday, 20-Jul-2024 16:53:19 JST チャノさん

     in reply to

     • Dowito

     @Dowito @zemichi The people involved in all this have all been so insufferable for so long, it's difficult to feel any sympathy. I'm just happy to be able to watch the fireworks, personally.

     luithe likes this.
   • Dowito (dowito@baraag.net)'s status on Saturday, 20-Jul-2024 16:53:20 JST Dowito

     in reply to

     • チャノさん

     @japananon @zemichi
     Yeah the book was clearly fiction it’s even sold in that category on Amazon so it was clearly a deliberate intention from the beginning.
     This story will have consequence on academic level.

   • Dowito (dowito@baraag.net)'s status on Saturday, 20-Jul-2024 21:51:30 JST Dowito

     in reply to

     • チャノさん

     @zemichi @japananon
     Dark skinned character In old stamp represent mostly southern Japanese like southern Italian they are more suntanned, anyway I dunno if you can access everything without credential but try using Google scholar that a search engines specified for thesis and academic publications in general .

     luithe likes this.
   • Dowito (dowito@baraag.net)'s status on Saturday, 20-Jul-2024 21:51:31 JST Dowito

     in reply to

     • チャノさん

     @japananon @zemichi
     Yeah I fell you bit I’m more upset because no one bothered to check when this had to be done, I’m in archeological field so I know pretty well how a search on historical manuscript goes so when they started to speak about this i know that something was wrong.

   • :back_from_gab: :musashi_berseker: :abigail_williams: :musashi: :benienma: :astolfo: :chloe: 🏆🏆 winner of the Holy Gab War and Holy Poast War (zemichi@bae.st)'s status on Saturday, 20-Jul-2024 21:51:31 JST :back_from_gab: :musashi_berseker: :abigail_williams: :musashi: :benienma: :astolfo: :chloe: 🏆🏆 winner of the Holy Gab War and Holy Poast War

     in reply to

     • チャノさん
     • Dowito
     @Dowito @japananon
     I decided to do a side quest and look into the sources for Yasuke, navigating Japanese sources is hard so I'm gonna focus on the wikipedia article because this is basically the primary source being used to push this agenda.
     
     The earliest "evidence" for Yasuke (or any black guy) is of various letters about the black people they brought over into Japan. First problem is that they're in languages people can't read. Second some of the cited wiki sources are about what people called black people, which is irrelevant because we're talking about a named individual.
     
     Earliest books about black people were historical fiction. The book "Kurosuke" seems to be the earliest idea for a black samurai. Coincidentally the book was published in 1968, 4 years after the Tokyo Olympics which could mark the first times foreigners were seen en masse by the Japanese public. (Not counting American occupation)
     
     Modern sources ALL reference Lockley's book. From 2019 onwards every Yasuke source comes from Lockley and nobody else. The articles themselves seem to be mirrors of each other referencing the common points of the book and no alternative evidence.
     
     Picture evidence is pretty stupid. As they're all "here's a black guy that could be Yasuke!" uhh... No. I don't know why Japanese would draw black people in old art but take this example posted below of sumo wrestlers. That guy is the only black guy in this art, however taking in the full context of the image the guy having dark skin may be using color to contrast the subject with the rest of the image. The black sumo has a clear powerful grip and ready to toss that guy, other guy only has a one handed grip and his feet are up in the air, as the meme goes bro was not built for this.
     
     Based on everything sourced on Wikipedia I have a funny theory. Lockley could have just plagiarized Kurosuke for his own means and then tried to pass it off as historical fact. :jokerlol:
     
     Look, I know that black people haven't been respected in ancient times. However we are still talking about a person that is supposed to be a samurai working under Nobunaga. Samurai were the celebrities of their time and black people in Japan would be hard to ignore. I don't care how much people think Japan hates black people or how Nobunaga was thought about at the time. There would have been more documentation other than Jesuit letters, there would have been Japanese sources too.
     1094px-Black_sumo_wrestler_in_17th_century.jpg
     Sumō_yūrakuzu_byōbu.jpg
   • Dowito (dowito@baraag.net)'s status on Sunday, 21-Jul-2024 01:00:37 JST Dowito

     in reply to

     • チャノさん

     @zemichi @japananon
     The main point is already proven, if there no historically attendibile evidence of him being a samurai then he was no samurai and hadn’t any relevant role in history.
     Now all the rest is only pertains is academic dishonesty that should be punished accordingly but this we’ll be between his Alma Mater and the Japan government.

     Everything else are just Gamers angry about all the shit that was throw at us for the last seven years or so.

   • チャノさん (japananon@mitra.anon-kenkai.com)'s status on Sunday, 21-Jul-2024 01:00:37 JST チャノさん

     in reply to

     • Dowito

     @Dowito @zemichi The usual suspects loudly crowing and insisting their fabricated headcanon about the history of other peoples' countries has been so overbearing, the shitstorm over it is all fine by me. I doubt I'll see Ubi go bankrupt in my lifetime, but seeing Lockley thrown out of academia and his reputation tarred forever would be a fine consolation prize.

   • :back_from_gab: :musashi_berseker: :abigail_williams: :musashi: :benienma: :astolfo: :chloe: 🏆🏆 winner of the Holy Gab War and Holy Poast War (zemichi@bae.st)'s status on Sunday, 21-Jul-2024 01:00:38 JST :back_from_gab: :musashi_berseker: :abigail_williams: :musashi: :benienma: :astolfo: :chloe: 🏆🏆 winner of the Holy Gab War and Holy Poast War

     in reply to

     • チャノさん
     • Dowito
     @Dowito @japananon
     The problem is that Yasuke sources seem to primarily come from the Yasuke book. So academic papers won't help. The papers I did see were about Japan-afro studies.
     
     I don't know if I'll look deeper into this. But the first thing I'd do is look up this "Kurosuke children's book" to better understand it. It would be funny if the major points of Yasuke were all present in Kurosuke. Just read this one synopsis:
     "Kuro-suke of Japan
     A Japanese children’s story about a black young man who worked for Oda Nobunaga during the Honnôji Revolt. It is a masterpiece that contributed to the development of the historical genre in Japan.
     
     View Source
     Type:
     book
     Creator:
     Kurusu Yoshio
     Publisher:
     Iwasaki Shoten
     Date:
     1968
     Location:
     Japan
     Continent:
     Asia
     Keywords:
     samurai, shogun, battle, war, castle "
     
     Again this would be REALLY FUNNY if this entire Yasuke thing was just plagiarized historical fiction passed off as historical fact.
     thebook.jpg
   • :back_from_gab: :musashi_berseker: :abigail_williams: :musashi: :benienma: :astolfo: :chloe: 🏆🏆 winner of the Holy Gab War and Holy Poast War (zemichi@bae.st)'s status on Sunday, 21-Jul-2024 02:34:19 JST :back_from_gab: :musashi_berseker: :abigail_williams: :musashi: :benienma: :astolfo: :chloe: 🏆🏆 winner of the Holy Gab War and Holy Poast War

     in reply to

     • チャノさん
     • Dowito
     @Dowito @japananon
     So I found a more in depth source on the Yasuke scam timeline and what happened
     https://japanese-with-naoto.com/2024/07/17/dreamy-history-assassin-1/
     
     The first published source from Lockley came from himself editing wikipedia in 2015 for a future paper in 2016. There was obviously intention to introduce original research as fact, something that is not allowed on Wikipedia. But all subsequent hype over Yasuke came after the published book in 2019.
     
     As to why Lockley did this... If you're a conspiracy theorist then here's some food for you:
     -2015 was the year when a half black half Japanese woman won miss Japan.
     -in 2019, we have the lead up to the Olympics in Japan, very convenient timeframe for a book like this to come out.
     -april 2019, Lockley's book gets published
     -may 2019, Chadwick Boseman (marvel black panther guy) gets tapped for a Yasuke movie.
     -covid messes with all of this though. And Chadwick Boseman dies leaving plans for this movie in limbo.
     
     Circumstantial evidence leads me to believe that there was an organized effort to push this propaganda. Ain't no way a movie gets planned a month after the Yasuke book gets published. :back_from_the_cia:
     New Janny in Town likes this.
   • Dowito (dowito@baraag.net)'s status on Sunday, 21-Jul-2024 02:34:20 JST Dowito

     in reply to

     • チャノさん

     @japananon @zemichi
     Sadly considering he have published is book under fiction his not completely accountable so is likely I would retain his Degree sadly.

     Yeah I don’t know how upsetting is to be told by foreigners: “your story is wrong I tell you how it was.”

     New Janny in Town repeated this.