Notices by philosophy@merovingian.club

@UncleIroh @basedbagel You're missing the point. The point is that there's as many interpretations of Christianity as there are Christians. If Christianity was INHERENTLY patriarchal, there couldn't even be a feminist or liberal Christianity. But there clearly is, so it's not inherently patriarchal, just...historically so.

@basedbagel @UncleIroh You accuse me of not arguing in bad faith, but then turn around and say I'm arguing for moral relativism.

I've addressed your points. You're just so stuck in one mode you're not seeing how what I said addresses them. Christianity is not inherently patriarchal: early feminists made reference to a lot of NT scripture to justify their position.

Your entire argument rests on "my interpretation is correct and their's isn't." This is why Christianity is such a mess.

@basedbagel @UncleIroh You're losing patience because my points are completely countering everything you say but you're not seeing it. You're seeing YOUR version of Christianity: Christianity de jure. You're seeing its history through this bias, rather than seeing Christianity de facto, as it is. Christians, as they are, pick and choose what they want to follow. They justify progressivism through "love your neighbor." How much of the OT to follow is an argument as old as Christianity itself.

@basedbagel @UncleIroh This is simply low level thinking. You think there's a "right way" to interpret Christianity and a "wrong way." But what determines the correct way? The people that say there's a right way?

This is the entire problem with this conversation and why it's REALLY tedious for me. You're stuck in Blue/level 4 Spiral Dynamics thinking. For every "right way" you have, another group has their "right way."

@basedbagel @UncleIroh Ok, you're clearly lacking in self-awareness and my original diagnosis of level 4 thinking is dead on. This confirms it.

That's not a straw man at all. You're saying that YOUR understanding of the Bible is correct (or maybe, your group's). Other groups say you're the one twisting the scripture. How do you determine who's right? An epistemology answering the question would be level 5 thinking.

Lacking awareness of this problem is really clear in what you're saying.

@basedbagel @UncleIroh No, it doesn't. Nietzche predicted EVERYTHING, and identified Christianity as the CAUSE. Further, the social gospel movement FOUNDED progressivism. This whole situation is the fault of Christian values!

@basedbagel @UncleIroh The Bible also says to not mix linens and avoid shellfish, but people don't exactly follow all the rules. Christians have always picked and chose what's convenient. So this doesn't mean much. Christians founded progressivism and their slave morality values continue to fuel the movement. You're only looking at the outside paint and not the engine.

@basedbagel @UncleIroh I didn't ignore that. That's exactly what I was responding to. Christians conveniently pick and choose what to follow and what not to follow all the time. They don't care about mixing linens or eating shellfish either...they're just taking "love your neighbor (even if he's gay)" over "don't be gay."

"Also progressivism has satanic orgins not christian."
No, it doesn't. It started in the late 19th century with the social gospel movement:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Gospel

@basedbagel @UncleIroh "There are no versions of Christianity.

There is scripture and there are humans who twist words to serve their own ends as they have done from antiquity. "

And don't tell me you're not saying there's a "right way," because that's exactly what this quote is saying. "My group's interpretation of the Bible is the CORRECT one. Other people are twisting words."

It's so ludicrously lacking in self-awareness.

@basedbagel @UncleIroh This is exactly the argument liberal Christians make: that "love your neighbor" supercedes anything in the Old Testament. You're the one being disingenuous if you don't recognize this.

@basedbagel @UncleIroh And yet it has everything to do with the overall point. Being Christian has nothing to do with getting the results you want. There's a TON of Christians out there who pick and choose what they want to follow in the Bible, and there are as many interpretations of the Bible as there are Christians. Adopting Christianity, therefore, doesn't even guarantee we'll get rid of feminism, nor does it mean Christianity didn't give rise to feminism.

@UncleIroh @basedbagel Well, and here's why Buddhism is outright superior. It has a metaphysics but its central claims have nothing to do with shit humans made up and then want to claim are objective (metaphysics, epistemology and ethics all fall under that). There's nothing false required in Buddhism. Christianity rests on nonsense that a 10 year old that figures out there is no Santa Clause can see through, because it's the same thing if it doesn't have social force behind it.

@UncleIroh @basedbagel By this argument, Christianity is self-negation and nihilism just as much. Its goal is to get to heaven, and its logical conclusion is that after the rapture, humans will no longer physically exist on Earth.

I see arguments of this form from Christian Nationalists a lot:
1. If we were Christian, we would ban {a bunch of things like feminism}.
2. We really want to ban those things since they're bad.
3. Therefore, we should force Christianity on folks.

This is an affirming the consequent fallacy.

Further, we don't need to force this religion to ban bad things. Christianity, as history has shown, also brings its own bad things.

@basedbagel @UncleIroh How is Christian ethics not subjective? Unless you already believe the metaphysics, it's just as made up and subjective as any secular ethics.

@UncleIroh @basedbagel Buddhism is not nihilistic. Nihilism is the idea there is no purpose to life. Buddhism establishes a clear purpose, which is enlightenment. It's literally the opposite of nihilistic. Further, karma is not the end "thing" of Buddhism. Enlightenment is.

This shit is old. You're arguing for a specific conclusion you want and trying to form facts surrounding it. This is such a common theme with conversations with Christians: they warp every other worldview, deliberately.