Notices by Panos Damelos (panos@calckey.social)

There's much talk about "Embrace - Extend - Extinguish" regarding #Meta, and I agree, it's a very real threat and something they will try to do sooner or later. However, I don't think that fediblocking their servers will stop that from happening - it could actually help them. Let me explain.

We can't stop Meta from using #ActivityPub. We knew that when we adopted an open protocol. Even if every single server blocks them, they can still use ActivityPub if they want. They already have a huge userbase from Instagram, and they will also pay celebrities to use their service. They don't rely on content from the rest of the Fediverse for their plan to work. They're not aiming for the anti-centralization crowd.

So, one way this could play out is: Everyone blocks them, and then they have another reason to lock their users in. Those who use their platform and have friends and accounts they follow there, won't have anywhere to go if the rest of the #Fediverse blocks them. So they will instantly be the biggest ActivityPub platform, and they can do whatever they want without any competition or alternatives.

Or - their users could see in practice that they don't have to view their ads, they don't have to rely on them, they don't have to eat their sketchy algorithms and give them their data, because they can follow the same accounts from any fedi server. Of course they have the money and power to lock users in with various ways. But this way users will see they have choices.

I'm worried that the discussion these days revolves around the pattern: "Are you against Meta? Then you have to block them!". And if you don't intend to necessarily block them, then that means you are not so much against them, that you are willing to give them a chance to prove they have good intentions etc. That you think that, if Meta is on fedi, then they'll be cool.

I have absolutely no second thoughts about what Meta is. They are capitalist snakes and they will shit on everything you love for profit. I am not giving them any chance to prove otherwise, I know what they are. And I intend to keep saying that. If they use ActivityPub, I will be saying that directly to their users, on their platform, but from my server - not giving them anything. I will probably be saying to a lot of people "What the hell are you still doing there? Come over here!". The fact that I'll be able to tell them from another platform, will be proof that there is indeed no reason for them to stay on Meta. I've tried converting facebook users, most of them were never really interested because they want to stay in touch with certain people that are on Meta's platform. Let's see how it will be when they will actually be able to do just that.

The war for Meta's userbase is just around the corner. I do not intend to avoid it by blocking them. I won't move to Meta's platform anyway - I didn't leave facebook to go back to them on fedi. I hope you won't either.

We might lose. But we will fight. Screw Meta. Let's show their users they have options. Don't forget that most of us had or still have accounts on mainstream social. I can't wait to show what we've been building here to even more people. Bring it on!

@aral@mastodon.ar.al @luthien1126@mstdn.social Perhaps you are right. However, "we need to save ActivityPub from big companies, although we can't" doesn't sound very convincing. If it's inevitable, then we need to focus on what you call "the small web" ASAP. And then there's the question: Is the small web also inevitable? Is the "federated" web inevitable? Because right now we're not even close to a point where ActivityPub-type federation is mainstream, and we're looking at ways to move further from that. The Fediverse could fail. The Small Web could never go mainstream. If you think that we can't avoid the centralization of ActivityPub but for now we need to delay big companies from joining it so that we have more time to prepare for the Small Web, how can you be sure that something like this won't accelerate things? That this isn't exactly what's needed right now, so that we see the design flaws of AP in action and move on? But the idea that we need to collectively leave the Fediverse behind but not right now is just an idea, just an opinion. I'm far from convinced that things will play out like you expect, and in expected timeframes.

@aral@mastodon.ar.al @luthien1126@mstdn.social If you truly believe that "it's inevitable that they will take over this space given its design", then there's something wrong with this space's design. If we can only delay it, then the whole issue is an exercise in futility anyway.

I'm not afraid of the two fedi servers I use being "taken over", though. Users could jump ship and use Meta's platform instead, if it's that much better. But we always have the danger of users leaving fedi completely (on greek fedi for example, I certainly see less active users compared to 6 months ago). If users are gonna leave, I'd rather see them leave for Meta's federated platform, than for Meta's (or Musk's) centralized platforms - so that I can at least still follow them if I want. It would be great if Meta or similar companies didn't exist at all, but this is something for the fall of capitalism. Which I'm afraid will need much bigger struggle than fediblocking a server.

There is another reason I find the discussion about blocking #Meta's #ActivityPub project #Threads interesting:

I've been saying for a while now that the #Fediverse is a new and different beast, and whoever tries to understand it simply as a direct social media replacement misses the whole picture. We're also federated communities, just as much.

Today we see a lot of concern about "what will the #Fediverse do" with #Meta. Wanna know what we will do? Everything and nothing. Because the Fediverse is not one entity. This is the essence of its decentralized nature - and that's cool. If your server intends to block Meta servers completely - cool. If not, cool again.

But if you expect a unified response on something like that, you're in for a disappointment.

This is not a "schism", a "problem", something to "solve". This is just decentralization in practice. We don't need to have the same blocklists, and that's ok. Open protocols are not something you can control, so chill. When the time comes for this subject, choose a server with a policy that you agree with. But if you're worried that we won't all have one unified stance... are you sure you actually like #decentralization?

OK, let me try something.

Hello @Gargron@mastodon.social! It’s the first time I’m addressing you, so let me first of all say a big THANK YOU for your contribution to the #Fediverse! The reason I’m writing this is that I saw that @mastodon recently announced quote posts - I think that’s a great decision! As you probably know, #Misskey and #Calckey already have an implementation for quotes, where the quote appears under the original post (like a comment, but flagged as a quote), and where the original poster is notified when quoted.

I don’t know how you intend to implement this feature in Mastodon, but since our users interact with each other, I thought it would be a good idea to suggest some direct communication with @syuilo@misskey.io (who originally implemented this in #Misskey) and @kainoa (our lead dev at #calkey), to make sure our implementations will be compatible. Even if there are concerns and things that you’d prefer to be done differently, I think that they should be discussed, and #Misskey and #Calckey should consider adjusting their implementations, so that they interoperate seamlessly with yours. The idea is, let’s see if it’s possible to find a common way to do this, so that users have a smoother, safer and more consistent experience, on such a sensitive issue!

I think that the widest possible interoperability in the #Fediverse is to everyone’s benefit, and it gives a better experience for every #fedizen, no matter what platform they’re on. Let’s try to work closer together on common features or problems and find common solutions - we’ve got this. :blobbonedealwithit:

Posting this publicly because I think that more cooperation between fedi platforms is something many people in here would love to see – myself included! Hoping this is received positively and in good faith. United fedi is best fedi =) :fediverse: