Notices by mike805 (mike805@fosstodon.org), page 5

@freemo @lmrocha @thatguyoverthere actually.... owning a car doesn't require a license. It is entirely possible to have a car registered in your name and not have a drivers' license. If you have a big piece of land you can even drive it around your own land. Many farm boys drove around the farm long before turning 16. Those kids could also carry a rifle around on the farm, and did.

Using a potentially deadly object IN PUBLIC requires you to demonstrate basic competence in most states.

@freemo @lmrocha @thatguyoverthere the vehicle versus gun comparison ought to be used more often in these debates.

Some of the terrorist truck rampages have run up body counts comparable to the mass shootings. And if guns were banned, large vehicles would be the next easiest way to go on a killing spree.

Cars are also the other big killer of young people besides guns and drugs. So "how would you regulate vehicles then?" is a good question to ask.

@lmrocha @freemo @thatguyoverthere drivers' licenses are "shall issue." You don't have to be friends with the mayor, or a business owner. You have to show basic competence in the field you are being licensed in - able to drive a vehicle for a few minutes without doing anything seriously wrong.

Many states have similar "shall issue" for CCW permits. Although a natural rights purist would object, in a practical sense it works.

The problem is when you have to be "someone special" to get one.

@thatguyoverthere @freemo @lmrocha @pj only a minority of humans seem capable of rationally overriding their emotions. We have rational thought but the ape mind controls all the rewards and punishments. The rational mind just exists to figure out how to satisfy the ape desires.

@freemo @pj @thatguyoverthere @lmrocha in that case, Japan sucks less than most. The police there go most years without firing a shot. They are trained to use their batons with modified sword-fighting techniques to disarm a knife attacker.

However... in the absence of guns, the Yakuza was able to run extortion and protection rackets with basic strong-arm thugs, and force small businesses to pay them a substantial percentage. That's the downside of being gun-free. Organized muscle dominates.

@thatguyoverthere @freemo @lmrocha @pj From the gun-rights side, we used to have a civilization where people could have deadly weapons for protection and sport, without frequent massacres taking place.

We need to fix our culture so that is possible again. That's where the statistics come in - figure out what are the factors causing people to go rage monster.

If the culture isn't fixable, then what comes next will not be pretty, and guns will certainly be in demand in that environment.

@thatguyoverthere @freemo @lmrocha @pj this thread shows a common problem.

People with incompatible worldviews usually cannot have productive debates about an issue that impacts their worldviews.

People on the gun rights side see this as a matter of NATURAL RIGHTS - rights that existed before civilization. Numbers and harms don't move them.

People on the anti-gun side see it as a matter of SAFETY - they want to reduce harms. At least the honest ones do. A few are would-be tyrants.

@lmrocha @freemo then change it. The Founders put in a procedure to change the Constitution. If a strong majority really does oppose the public ownership of guns, then you should have no trouble getting an amendment passed, right? A previous generation of progressive activists actually managed to get a ban on alcohol passed as an amendment, so it's not impossible.

I don't agree with you, but campaigning for an amendment would be the honest approach.

@freemo right on. And before someone posts the "well regulated militia" argument, the militia at that time was the able-bodied male population. The 2a is definitely about the general public being armed and trained to repel either invasion or tyranny.

If the Federal government wanted to take the 2a seriously, they should be expanding the Civilian Marksmanship Program and offering free rifle lessons in high school.