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1. Drew DeVault (drewdevault@fosstodon.org)'s status on Monday, 01-Apr-2024 23:54:21 JST Drew DeVault

   People still trying to incorrectly mansplain software licenses to me

   My brothers and sisters, I know how they work

   • Drew DeVault (drewdevault@fosstodon.org)'s status on Monday, 01-Apr-2024 23:54:20 JST Drew DeVault

     in reply to

     If you would like to learn more about how free software licenses work, I built a whole website explaining it:

     https://writefreesoftware.org

     Please take a look!

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Monday, 01-Apr-2024 23:54:20 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • Chip Butty

     @drewdevault @otfrom Hey Drew, excellent site, thank you for making and sharing it.

     One question: MPL is listed as copyleft. FirefoxOS was released under MPL. We now have a line of feature phones running the proprietary KaiOS based on FirefoxOS. How do we ensure folks who don’t want that to happen to their work don’t confuse MPL with (A)GPL as they’re all listed as CopyLeft. A warning perhaps?

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Monday, 01-Apr-2024 23:59:24 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • Chip Butty

     @drewdevault @otfrom I guess my point is that MPL doesn’t allow your software to remain free (as evidenced by KaiOS, for example) so perhaps should be separated from A(GPL)?

   • Drew DeVault (drewdevault@fosstodon.org)'s status on Monday, 01-Apr-2024 23:59:25 JST Drew DeVault

     in reply to

     • Aral Balkan
     • Chip Butty

     @aral @otfrom practical advice for choosing a copyleft license is shown here:

     https://writefreesoftware.org/learn/participate/choose-a-license/

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Apr-2024 00:01:30 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • Chip Butty

     @drewdevault @otfrom (If FirefoxOS had been licensed under GPL, either KaiOS would not have existed – as they couldn’t have exploited it – or it would have and would have been free software like Firefox OS. So that’s a big difference in outcomes between the choice of those two licenses that currently look like they’re equivalent on the site.)

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Apr-2024 00:02:51 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • Chip Butty

     @drewdevault @otfrom Doesn’t make it bad, no. Just not equivalent to (A)GPL.

   • Drew DeVault (drewdevault@fosstodon.org)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Apr-2024 00:02:52 JST Drew DeVault

     in reply to

     • Aral Balkan
     • Chip Butty

     @aral @otfrom it doesn't allow the _software_ to remain free but it does ensure the files remain free when modified.

     I mean, it does the job it's designed for, that doesn't make it bad

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Apr-2024 00:05:32 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • Chip Butty

     @drewdevault @otfrom OK, cool. Not sure how anyone who cares about free software wouldn’t be “salty” about free software that folks donated to being exploited as part a proprietary OS (we could’ve had free/open feature phones if not for Mozilla’s licensing) but, also, not my monkeys, not my circus, definitely not the hill I wish to die on.

     Thanks for letting me know your thoughts on the subject.

   • Drew DeVault (drewdevault@fosstodon.org)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Apr-2024 00:05:33 JST Drew DeVault

     in reply to

     • Aral Balkan
     • Chip Butty

     @aral @otfrom I don't think that these are not clearly communicated on the website. I think you're just salty about KaiOS

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Apr-2024 00:13:49 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • Chip Butty

     @drewdevault @otfrom *sigh* yes, I know. And Mozilla knows.

     But this is a site that aims to educate folks who might not know and the difference *in intent* between MPL and (A)GPL is exactly why they shouldn’t be lumped together into the same category: So folks who don’t know—which appears to be the audience the site is aimed at—don’t make the wrong decision by assuming they’re equivalent.

     It’s one thing to be a Mozilla knowingly. Much worse to be one accidentally.

   • Drew DeVault (drewdevault@fosstodon.org)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Apr-2024 00:13:50 JST Drew DeVault

     in reply to

     • Aral Balkan
     • Chip Butty

     @aral @otfrom man, the license is designed for this kind of use-case to be possible. That's what it's for. Use a different license if you don't want it to be used like this.

   • Drew DeVault (drewdevault@fosstodon.org)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Apr-2024 00:21:11 JST Drew DeVault

     in reply to

     • Aral Balkan
     • Chip Butty

     @aral @otfrom I think it's explained well. MPL is the weakest copyleft license and is indicated as such on the page, and suggested only for a very specific use-case, namely for libraries where you want downstreams to be able to vendor it (and LGPL is suggested if you don't want to allow vendoring)

     What more do you want? A rant on how MPL fucked up FirefoxOS in an aside?

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Apr-2024 00:21:11 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • Chip Butty

     @drewdevault @otfrom This is what I see. What an I missing?

     From this, I’d think MPL gives me all the advantages listed above and, given it’s first in the list, that it’s probably the most popular and/or recommended one.

     Is it a mobile layout issue? (I’ll check out the site on desktop when I’m at my desk; on the phone at the moment.)

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Apr-2024 00:21:51 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • Chip Butty

     @drewdevault @otfrom (And I mean, sure, that sounds like it would be a helpful aside) :)

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Apr-2024 00:33:58 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • Chip Butty

     @drewdevault @otfrom I’m not a lawyer and not the best person to do that (as much as I’d love to see such an article).

     What I can do, if you think it’ll be helpful, is write about why I would personally choose (A)GPL over MPL for, e.g., the Small Web stuff, as that’s actually based on my experience. (And I’d be happy to do that – my bloody endless todo list be damned.)

   • Drew DeVault (drewdevault@fosstodon.org)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Apr-2024 00:33:59 JST Drew DeVault

     in reply to

     • Aral Balkan
     • Chip Butty

     @aral @otfrom I think what you might want to do instead of nitpicking this page is write a blog post about the MPL for writefreesoftware.org/blog

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Apr-2024 00:35:41 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • Chip Butty

     @drewdevault @otfrom Damn my big mouth creating more work for me :) Sure, ok. Let me know if you have any guidelines for the blog (word count, etc.) and where I should send it to and I’ll put it on my list for this week.

   • Drew DeVault (drewdevault@fosstodon.org)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Apr-2024 00:35:42 JST Drew DeVault

     in reply to

     • Aral Balkan
     • Chip Butty

     @aral @otfrom please do, I'd be happy to see that kind of content for the blog

   • Drew DeVault (drewdevault@fosstodon.org)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Apr-2024 00:36:21 JST Drew DeVault

     in reply to

     • Aral Balkan
     • Chip Butty

     @aral @otfrom I'll help with copyediting and some basic factual stuff about the MPL and its history once you have a draft, and if you like I can pitch in with a pro-MPL view for why I used it for many Hare libraries

   • Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Apr-2024 00:36:21 JST Aral Balkan

     in reply to

     • Chip Butty

     @drewdevault @otfrom Yeah, that sounds good, thanks. I’m definitely not arguing that it doesn’t have its uses.