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1. xianc78@gameliberty.club's status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2023 09:33:40 JST xianc78

   So how bad is the current situation of not being able to self host email? Supposedly, it's becoming harder to self-host because Gmail would blacklist entire IP ranges if a single server from said range is known for spam which supposedly makes it much harder to self host.

   But I see a lot of people still self-hosting and saying that they don't have any problem. I like to do nslookups on various small business and organization websites and a lot of them still self-host (or use a VPS) with no problem.

   I think that one article exaggerated the situation.

   • cool_boy_mew likes this.
   • cool_boy_mew (coolboymew@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2023 09:35:58 JST cool_boy_mew

     in reply to
     @xianc78 I've heard around here that it's unsustainable
     
     I imagine if you never email anyone and only use it for sign up and such, it's probably no problems
   • Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2023 09:39:08 JST Moon

     in reply to
     @xianc78 I finally stopped after ten years and migrating my last job's server away from self-hosting since 1996 because it became intolerable.
   • LS (lain@lain.com)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2023 09:39:08 JST LS

     in reply to

     • Moon
     @Moon @xianc78 i did it for ~10 years and only stopped because i wanted better search, it always worked flawlessly for me out of the box (with mailinabox)
   • xianc78@gameliberty.club's status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2023 10:05:29 JST xianc78

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew

     @coolboymew I pretty much only use email for sign ups, but that may change soon. I only use Gmail if I am working for a company that uses it.

     cool_boy_mew likes this.
   • Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2023 10:15:41 JST Moon

     in reply to

     • LS
     @lain @xianc78 an abbreviated version of my story is I had little problems with my company's email, then we were forced to a new IP range by our ISP and immediately spam became overwhelming and I was spending massive amounts of time writing spamassassin rules and still losing the battle.
     
     On my personal server, from 2010 to 2020-ish, I had spam but it was tolerable, in the last couple years it got worse. And Google kept blocking my server so I could not communicate with gmail users. I would get unblocked after great effort trying to get hold of any human at Google (my settings were absolutely perfect) and eventually they would just block me again and I would have to start over.
     LS likes this.
   • Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2023 10:16:48 JST Moon

     in reply to

     • LS
     • 7666
     @7666 @xianc78 @lain I use fastmail now and it works great.
   • xianc78@gameliberty.club's status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2023 10:16:48 JST xianc78

     in reply to

     • Moon
     • LS
     • 7666

     @Moon @7666 @lain I wouldn't trust FastMail. They seem shady.

     https://digdeeper.club/articles/email.xhtml#FastMail

     Posteo.de seems like the best. It's paid, but it is 1 EUR per month and they even allow cash by mail. Disroot seems like a decent choice if you want a free provider, but the various backgrounds they use on their website give me Antifa vibes. They claim that anyone can use it regardless of ideology.

     Wrongthink likes this.
   • 7666 (7666@comp.lain.la)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2023 10:16:49 JST 7666

     in reply to

     • Moon
     • LS
     @lain @xianc78 @Moon it's one of the few services i don't recommend selfhosting because deliverability is really hard to guarantee on VPSes, ISPs actively block SMTP ports, and it's that one service you REALLY want to have working out of all other selfhost services
     
     i ended up moving to protonmail for all of my mail with multiple custom domains and i just tag emails based on what domain it came in on - happy medium between security and deliverability for me and if proton fucks up i can swing my MX records somewhere else
     LS likes this.
   • LS (lain@lain.com)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2023 10:18:31 JST LS

     in reply to

     • Moon
     • 7666
     @Moon @7666 @xianc78 same
   • Darrow O'Lykos (darrow@f.thesolarrepublic.org)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2023 10:27:24 JST Darrow O'Lykos

     in reply to
     @xianc78 I have experience with self-hosted email, ranging from small boxes to large scale outbound mail operations with hundreds of thousands of emails daily. IMO, people exaggerate the problems a bit. For the orgs that run self-hosted, as long as DKIM, SPF & DMARC are correctly configured with appropriate rDNS, and you didn't happen to get an IP previously used for hardcore spamming, it's a little bit of work upfront but I haven't had to do this constant work that people say it is. Maybe I have just had good luck, but this is even after moving IPs and providers multiple times. I even had servers running on OVH which I know now from spam mitigation work is responsible for a fair amount of it.
     
     The main issues I've had is not with providers like Gmail & Outlook, it's more regional providers, small ISPs etc who have black box rejections and do not respond to any attempts to contact them. A notable example is Comcast, who blocked one domain I'm assuming purely based on its TLD (it had never sent email to them before), and I still have not managed to resolve that situation. This is with a domain hosted on Google Workspace! So no, even those services are not infallible.
     
     But it is completely valid to use a hosted service because not everyone has the expertise or resources to make their systems redundant, secure, usable, etc. And in fact, for personal accounts with possibly critical communication, I do not use self-hosted services for that because I like to err on the side of caution. But to my knowledge, I have never missed any communication on the self-hosted boxes.
     xianc78 likes this.
   • coldacid 🇨🇦 🇺🇦 :verified: (coldacid@noagendasocial.com)'s status on Wednesday, 01-Feb-2023 10:30:29 JST coldacid 🇨🇦 🇺🇦 :verified:

     in reply to

     @xianc78 I use my web hosting's email service instead of self hosting because even without the blacklisting issues, it's less hassle for something that's got pretty much no security to it anyway

     xianc78 likes this.