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1. Cayhr (cayhr@varishangout.net)'s status on Thursday, 26-Jan-2023 18:28:05 JST Cayhr

   Any JP learners? :cultured:

   https://nitter.varishangout.net/B_Rabbit843/status/1617717219156463616

   • Gyaru Enjoyer (locagainstwall@varishangout.net)'s status on Thursday, 26-Jan-2023 18:27:58 JST Gyaru Enjoyer

     in reply to

     • Giganova8 :sob2: :nacho_dead:
     • teknomunk
     @teknomunk @Cayhr @Giganova8 Well. No shit. That's why you start with simple stuff. And the stuff you don't understand? You look it up. Make an Anki card if you really wanna remember it. English subs will just have you reading English while barely listening to the Japanese. Every otaku I know has been watching with English subs for years and all that sticks are some common phrases and words. I mean fuck, it was the same for me. When I actually started learning I was surprised how little I know.
     
     And I don't mean to offend but you've been learning for 20 years? I think I'd rather follow the advice of someone who got fluent in a bit under 2 years.
     
     Not saying everyone can do that, after all that guy tried to immerse in Japanese for at least 18 hours every day. I don't have that kind of time and I certainly won't be fluent in 2 years but I think I'll be at a pretty decent level. I'm at the point where I can watch and read simple stuff with no problems and I'm around half a year in.
     Misato likes this.
   • Gyaru Enjoyer (locagainstwall@varishangout.net)'s status on Thursday, 26-Jan-2023 18:28:00 JST Gyaru Enjoyer

     in reply to

     • Giganova8 :sob2: :nacho_dead:
     • teknomunk
     @teknomunk @Cayhr @Giganova8 I disagree. Translations will always take some liberties, and you will just be reading an English approximation of what's being said, even with fansubs. You need to get the English out and the Japanese in. Learn Japanese in Japanese. Just listen and pay attention to what's happening. Someone holds up an apple and says ringo? Congrats, you just learned a new word. That's how we all learned our first language. English subtitles won't help, if anything Japanese subs but that's assuming your reading is above your hearing.
   • teknomunk (teknomunk@apogee.polaris-1.work)'s status on Thursday, 26-Jan-2023 18:28:00 JST teknomunk

     in reply to

     • Giganova8 :sob2: :nacho_dead:
     • Gyaru Enjoyer
     • teknomunk
     That works for simple stuff, but how about things like "particle beam canon" or "tuberculosis"?
     
     I agree that picking up words the same way as a kid makes sense, and that you need to get to thinking in Japanese as soon as possible, but having English skills already gives you a shortcut to take.
     
     In the end though, each person should find something that works for them, practice regularly and adapt as things change. What worked for me a decade ago is not exactly what works now.
   • Gyaru Enjoyer (locagainstwall@varishangout.net)'s status on Thursday, 26-Jan-2023 18:28:02 JST Gyaru Enjoyer

     in reply to

     • Giganova8 :sob2: :nacho_dead:
     • teknomunk
     @Giganova8 @teknomunk @Cayhr Yes. You need a basic amount of knowledge ofc. Basic grammar, common words. But after that, go wild. Ofc you gotta start with easy shit but yeah. Just start watching anime raw, see how much you understand, look up what you don't understand. Just enjoy yourself, that's the most imporant part. That's how shit sticks, by having fun. It's how I learned English, media consumption
   • teknomunk (teknomunk@apogee.polaris-1.work)'s status on Thursday, 26-Jan-2023 18:28:02 JST teknomunk

     in reply to

     • Giganova8 :sob2: :nacho_dead:
     • Gyaru Enjoyer
     • teknomunk
     I don't recommend people jump straight to raws. Fansubs are a good halfway point if the objective is to learn. You have to pay attention to both the subtitles and the spoken words then crossreference them.
     
     Train yourself to pick out words that you know and try to guess what words mean from the subtitles. Fansub notes also help here. The feedback loop is much shorter because you aren't constantly stopping to refer to a dictionary.
   • Giganova8 :sob2: :nacho_dead: (giganova8@varishangout.net)'s status on Thursday, 26-Jan-2023 18:28:03 JST Giganova8 :sob2: :nacho_dead:

     in reply to

     • teknomunk
     @teknomunk @Cayhr
     What baffles me is the insistence they have that the only way you could possibly learn Japanese is by perfectly memorizing the entire language. Like you can't enjoy things until you've committed the whole thing perfectly to memory.
     
     Bro, nobody who speaks English has memorized every word in the Oxford dictionary. That's why dictionaries exist in the first place, nobody can memorize every possible word in a language. :tamamo_bruh:
   • teknomunk (teknomunk@apogee.polaris-1.work)'s status on Thursday, 26-Jan-2023 18:28:04 JST teknomunk

     in reply to
     Present. 20 years now, I think. I just found the language fascinating and didn't want to have to wait for the English dubs to follow a story. Currently working on learing to read Japanese without the furigana. I suspect I've got another decade or so of that.
     
     That thread is absolutely horrible takes. If they think learning particles is difficult, they must think learning the >3000 kanji each with multiple readings is the definition of hell.
   • Gyaru Enjoyer (locagainstwall@varishangout.net)'s status on Thursday, 26-Jan-2023 19:18:09 JST Gyaru Enjoyer

     in reply to

     • Misato
     • Giganova8 :sob2: :nacho_dead:
     • teknomunk
     @teknomunk @Cayhr @Giganova8 @Misato まぁ、俺が思うに20年間も勉強をしてから、君の日本語はもうペラペラはずなんだ :shrug:
   • Misato (misato@varishangout.net)'s status on Thursday, 26-Jan-2023 19:18:09 JST Misato

     in reply to

     • Gyaru Enjoyer
     @locagainstwall
     
     なんかメンションされたからとりあえず何らかの意見を出したほうがいいのかね？
     まぁ言うよ。全面的にGyaru Enojyerに同意かな。
     君が言うように日本語で日本語を理解する必要がある。（全部じゃないにしても）
     あとモチベーション（超重要）、アウトプット。
     日本語を使う機会を自分で作らないと改善することは難しいかな。
     
     Well Did you mention to me so I have to say something this topic?right?
     Well anyway I'll say it. I agree entire your opinion.
     Like you said, if you wanna learn Japanese you should learn Japanese in Japanese(it's not all but you should learn some part)
     And motivation( super important), output.
     If you don't have the Japanese output chance, you can't improve that.
     
     For example, I'm staying on Varis when I wanna talk to someone here so I have to use English (This is a good reason for me).
     I have been staying here 2 years my English was awful in early time but I think my English is getting better now.
     And also, I'll shadowing in English video sometimes and I'm watching some topic in English( with EN subtitle )
     Anyway motivation and objective are important, if you guys are wanna lesson without sub Japanese, you should learn at Japanese anime clip ( you can find kinda that clip video on Youtube or internet,easily)
     And you should find about what do you can have fun with at Japanese.
     That's all.
   • teknomunk (teknomunk@apogee.polaris-1.work)'s status on Thursday, 26-Jan-2023 19:18:11 JST teknomunk

     in reply to

     • Giganova8 :sob2: :nacho_dead:
     • Gyaru Enjoyer
     • teknomunk
     :ss_shrug: どうでもいい。勉強は大事けどそれは全部じゃない。
     
     それと今の勉強材料はこれみたいな漫画：https://rawkuma.com/the-new-gate-chapter-87/
     お前には好きすればいい