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1. Hoodedman (hoodedman@mastodon.london)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Sep-2023 23:57:02 JST Hoodedman

   The false Obama quandary

   It isn’t really a quandary at all. https://web.archive.org/web/20210925144420/https://midnightfire.blogspot.com/2012/10/the-false-obama-quandary.html

   • ≠ (amerika@noagendasocial.com)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Sep-2023 23:57:01 JST ≠

     in reply to

     @Hoodedman

     Useful points:

     1. "Lesser evil" = system is evil
     2. Appearances are not reality
     3. The existence of an opposition party validates the evil party

     Some of us were never fooled by Obama, who was simply a toasted Clinton.

     Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: likes this.
   • ≠ (amerika@noagendasocial.com)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 00:18:12 JST ≠

     in reply to

     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • FourOh-LLC
     • william.maggos
     • Sigma ζ (she/her)

     @Hoodedman

     Nature does not have bureaucracy or equality.

     It does have hierarchy, even in the forests.

     Good argument for natural rights.

     I hope you do not mind if I tag in a few interesting thinkers to this discussion:

     @wjmaggos @thatguyoverthere @FourOh-LLC @Sigma

     Let us talk about not Utopia, but a realistic ideal. Utopia does not exist after all.

   • Hoodedman (hoodedman@mastodon.london)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 00:18:13 JST Hoodedman

     in reply to

     • ≠

     @amerika This is the foundation of what I see as a good society. Truly autonomous individuals and groups. https://amoskeppler.substack.com/p/an-enduring-vision

   • ≠ (amerika@noagendasocial.com)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 00:18:14 JST ≠

     in reply to

     @Hoodedman

     So what is the best society? (As Plato would ask, a subset of his "what is the best life?" question.)

     Your second paragraph has a hint but might be worded differently: where the individual is in sync, mostly, with his culture.

     But that requires getting rid of the bureaucracy.

   • Hoodedman (hoodedman@mastodon.london)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 00:18:15 JST Hoodedman

     in reply to

     • ≠

     @amerika I disagree with that, of course. The system is wrong, but it is as far from leftist it is possible to come. Capitalism and the hierarchy are wrong. In other words, the very idea of inequality.
     In a truly great society, there is no contradiction between the individual and the group.

   • ≠ (amerika@noagendasocial.com)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 00:18:16 JST ≠

     in reply to

     @Hoodedman

     The bigger problem is that all egalitarian systems, and indeed all Leftist systems, are based on a lie: equality.

     People are not equal. In groups they choose evils.

   • Hoodedman (hoodedman@mastodon.london)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 00:18:49 JST Hoodedman

     in reply to

     • ≠
     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:
     • FourOh-LLC
     • william.maggos
     • Sigma ζ (she/her)

     @amerika @wjmaggos @thatguyoverthere @FourOh-LLC @Sigma The human hierarchy is basically an invention, a deception of civilization. I wrote a thesis on that, too. https://midnight-fire.net/civilization/tumor.html

   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 29-Sep-2023 19:36:11 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • ≠
     @Hoodedman @amerika > We must rewild all places of concrete, plastic, glass and asphalt, clad the city and all its buildings in green, in plants able to give us food and shelter. Every building should be covered by plants and solar panels. Any given neighborhood and community should be self-sustainable, autonomous, able to provide all necessities to its people within walking distance.
     
     Sounds like the 15 minute city proposal tbh. Also where do these solar panels come from? What incentive do the people with access to the minerals required to build panels have to provide these 15 minute cities with them if we abandon capitalism? In a capitalist market the incentive is obvious.
   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 29-Sep-2023 22:24:28 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • ≠
     @Hoodedman @amerika > I do want everything essential to be accessible within walking distance, and produced locally.
     
     What about solar panels and batteries? Aren't these going to be essential in this model? Panels break and wear out over time. Replacing them will be necessary and there is no guarantee on how long they will last. You can expect at most around 10 years before they need to be replaced, but you might see panels breaking due to weather or other environmental factors far sooner. Also the steel used to mount the panels or build the big city structures is going to have to come from somewhere. Concrete and asphalt also likely can't be produced everywhere without importing resources. How do you convince the holders of those resources that you should have them without any market incentives?
   • Hoodedman (hoodedman@mastodon.london)'s status on Friday, 29-Sep-2023 22:24:29 JST Hoodedman

     in reply to

     • ≠
     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     @thatguyoverthere @amerika There are those that will confuse it with the 15 minute city, I guess. There are important differences, though.
     The autonomy.
     The public transport and fast trains making any city within reasonable distance easily accessible.
     Solar, wind, the plants and any truly environmentally friendly energy.
     Yes, I do want everything essential to be accessible within walking distance, and produced locally. Luxuries will be harder to access, which is good.

   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 30-Sep-2023 00:03:29 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • ≠
     @Hoodedman @amerika Honestly I don't know where to begin.
     
     > It will come because there is a true need for it
     what?
     
     > a population trained to do critical and inventive thinking
     Who trains the people? What if they don't want to be trained? What if there are differences in the inventive and critical thinking capacity of individuals (:brain0: vs :brain10:). Seems like this part will require a certain amount of coercion, force, and authority. I don't know how you expect to avoid hierarchy.
     
     > We certainly have enormous, life-threatening trouble today brought on by capitalism.
     meh. I think you are equating the way people use tools with the tools. This is a common problem. "Guns are bad because bad people can use them" kind of logic.
   • Hoodedman (hoodedman@mastodon.london)'s status on Saturday, 30-Sep-2023 00:03:30 JST Hoodedman

     in reply to

     • ≠
     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     @thatguyoverthere @amerika I reject the very idea of "market incentives"...
     It will come because there is a true need for it, in a dynamic society with a population trained to do critical and inventive thinking.
     The worst problems will come during the transition and implementation. There will always be challenges, of course, but that is true of any society. We certainly have enormous, life-threatening trouble today brought on by capitalism.

   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 30-Sep-2023 02:14:39 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • ≠
     @Hoodedman @amerika I think actually that you've shown nothing. You don't answer my questions. You seem to completely ignore the animal side of the human psyche which is just weird. If you take away market incentives (or "reject the very idea") you are left with empathy and coercion/force to motivate people to work with you. The "E" in communism is for empathy. You act as if this wouldn't quickly [d]evolve into a tyranny.
     
     I don't think "capitalism is the only possible way of organizing human society", but I do think it's an efficient one that works well in spite of the various ways it can be abused (as is true of any tool). The world we live in today has many problems, but my ability to have stuff and trade it with other people is not one of them. I would be in favor of seeing the power to inflate/deflate the value of currency removed from the hands of the people who continually abuse it for their own profit at our detriment, but I see nothing wrong with someone buying raw materials, making a new thing, and selling the new thing to buy food or fuel.
   • Hoodedman (hoodedman@mastodon.london)'s status on Saturday, 30-Sep-2023 02:14:40 JST Hoodedman

     in reply to

     • ≠
     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     @thatguyoverthere @amerika no, you, like most people see capitalism as the only possible way of organizing human society, and forget that humanity existed long before that disaster struck us. There are many others.
     Your inability to see that makes it near impossible to explain true alternatives to you.
     I have shown you how completely straightforward one alternative is.

   • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think: (thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 30-Sep-2023 02:51:19 JST Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     in reply to

     • ≠
     @Hoodedman @amerika My questions aren't rhetorical. You just don't have answers and seem trained to think people will just do what's "necessary" because it's in their best interests (although how it's made to be in their best interests is not something you need worry about). You say a society without hierarchy is the goal, but the people need to be "trained" to think correctly so they can function in this society which means somewhere along the way hierarchies will form (as they always naturally do).
     
     > How do you get the essential stuff you need to build and maintain your city
     < It just shows up because we need it
   • Hoodedman (hoodedman@mastodon.london)'s status on Saturday, 30-Sep-2023 02:51:20 JST Hoodedman

     in reply to

     • ≠
     • Disinformation Purveyor :verified_think:

     @thatguyoverthere @amerika your questions are rhetorical. They aren't really questions at all, but arrogant presumptions.
     Capitalists carry an inherent inability to see that there is any alternative to capitalism.
     They don't even realize that humanity managed well long before the disaster of capitalism struck us. They enter any discussion about true alternatives with a strong bias against them.