Conversation

Notices

1. kaia (kaia@brotka.st)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2023 17:26:54 JST kaia
   the real Chernobyl disaster that has a lasting effects on our planet is that we lost trust in nuclear energy and use fossil energy instead.
   • grillchen (grillchen@brotka.st)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2023 17:26:48 JST grillchen

     in reply to

     • Phantasm
     @phnt @kaia the but the reason is fucked up price laws.
     it is called "Merit-Order"
     
     the most expensive necessary powerplant defines the price for all electricity. the idea is the cheapest, most cost effective way to generate energy has the highest profit margin.
     
     this means if the most expensive way to generate energy defines the price. that is usually neither green nor nuclear energy but fossil based energy according to this source (https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20230914IPR05103/creating-a-more-stable-affordable-and-sustainable-electricity-market)
     
     
     
     btw indirectly nuclear energy has been at fault for the price surge last winter. france fucked up their nuclear power plants due to poor (expensive) maintenance and covid. germany did increase the fossil fuel reactors and used nuclear energy few more months to stabilize the market.
   • Phantasm (phnt@fluffytail.org)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2023 17:26:49 JST Phantasm

     in reply to

     • grillchen
     @grillchen @kaia Probably because of wind, but my point was with nuclear power. I kinda doubt that the power plant staff would lie to everyone on an excursion. It's more complicated than just export/import for energy. There was a whole debacle this year, that we make enough electricity for us, sell it on an EU exchange and then buy it back at a higher price.
   • grillchen (grillchen@brotka.st)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2023 17:26:50 JST grillchen

     in reply to

     • grillchen
     • Phantasm
     @phnt @kaia btw yes germany exports more electricity than it imports
   • grillchen (grillchen@brotka.st)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2023 17:26:51 JST grillchen

     in reply to

     • Phantasm
     @phnt @kaia nah germany is exporting to poland lol
     
     mostly we import from denmark
   • Phantasm (phnt@fluffytail.org)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2023 17:26:52 JST Phantasm

     in reply to

     • grillchen
     @grillchen @kaia I think those numbers aren't all that accurate. Nuclear power is considered cheaper than most in the long run, after the initial investment and is one of the most effective ways to create electricity currently (~30-35% of heat from the reactor is made into electricity). Those costs are probably increased by the Germany's constant problem with "green" technologies. The truth with "green" power is, that around 50% of the power made in Czechia's second nuclear power plant (Dukovany) goes to Germany. So it's basically like this: We are going completely green and shutting down our nuclear power plants, but we will buy nuclear power from others instead.
   • grillchen (grillchen@brotka.st)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2023 17:26:53 JST grillchen

     in reply to
     @kaia btw gesamtkosten wenn man subventionen mit reinrechnet, von denen atomkraft mit am stärksten profitiert
     
     kannst bei atomenergie selbst wenn du die externen kosten ignorierst immernoch 15cent annehmen.
     
     Photovoltaik ist konstant am fallen und ist inzwischen wohl bei 10 cent angekommen (https://w3.windmesse.de/windenergie/pm/45411-green-planet-energy-braunkohle-strom-preis-erneuerbare-energie-kosten-fos-okostromanbieter-fossil-berechnung)
     
     (https://green-planet-energy.de/fileadmin/docs/publikationen/Studien/2017-10-Was_Strom_wirklich_kostet_lang.pdf 3.3.4) unfairer weise hat die grapik nur bei atomernergie externe kosten auch nach oben abgeschätzt. deswegen optimistisch die 15.1cent nehmen.
   • LS (lain@lain.com)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2023 17:27:57 JST LS

     in reply to

     • grillchen
     • Phantasm
     @grillchen @kaia @phnt merit order isn't a law, it's just how market prices work for a fungible product