Erik Moeller
When you're talking about Linux, it's okay to say that it's "open source".
It's okay to say that it's "free software".
It's okay to call it "GNU/Linux", "Linux", or to mess up its name.
It's okay to refer to it as "the one with the friendly penguin".
Part of RMS' legacy has been an incessant obsession with terminology and pedantry, overshadowing far more important shared objectives which are fundamentally emancipatory in nature.
Pedantry is not activism; it is alienating, not emancipatory.
Luis/Luigi ☭
@otyugh @eloquence even if terminology may be important, GNU/Linux offers not so many relevant info for the end user anyway. It's only useful for programmers (and mid/low level ones) who wants to know the ABI is GNU's one. For end users the name of the distro itself conveys more info. Or the package manager used. Or the DE...
オツユグ🇵🇸
@eloquence I do not agree. Choice of words is always a good topic.
You just don't have to be an ass about it.
Luis/Luigi ☭
@otyugh @eloquence as a philosophy/marketing term. I sincerely prefer Linux rather than GNU/Linux given the reputation problems GNU and more specifically Stallman have gone through
オツユグ🇵🇸
@LuigiDev @eloquence I can understand that. I still love some of historical/philosophical point RMS made, but I totally get the hostility/disgust a lot of people feels towards him - and I avoid using his name if I can avoid it. I talk about "the libre software movement" and its goal without need of any "hero" leading the way ; even if he was important to the definition of it, he wasn't the movement.
I also avoid talking about "Torvalds" and other, I feel personalities are often irrelevant.
オツユグ🇵🇸
@LuigiDev @eloquence Functionally speaking I agree. Like, as a dev, open source isn't much different to libre, so why the big fuss ?
But they do not always encompass the same communities.
I think I wouldn't do much free work for "open source" - that I do today and tomorrow - because "libre software" is about more than juste publicly available code.
Matthieu Weber 🇫🇷/🇫🇮
@LuigiDev @otyugh @eloquence I tend to agree, but if you want ot be more generic than "Ubuntu", you could say "Debian", but if you want to be more generic than that, what else is there than "GNU"?
Luis/Luigi ☭
@matthieu @otyugh @eloquence the kernel doesn't really give any interesting info that's why I said go for the real distros name
Matthieu Weber 🇫🇷/🇫🇮
@LuigiDev @otyugh @eloquence As GNU represents the larger code-base (compared to Linux), I suggest we all stop calling our systems "Linux" and start saying "GNU" instead, as it offers enough relevant info (and who cares about what kernel you are running, really?)
Adrian Cochrane
@vadorovsky @eloquence You could apply similar arguments against calling the whole system "Linux". You have choice between Linux & BSD kernels!
Personally I tend to refer to the distros by their names dropping the "Linux" part where relevant. Or for my purposes I find "free desktops" a good generalization, though it may not reflect what others are interested in.
Interestingly: Why we started using the metonym "Linux" is because GNU was a victim of their own success, not worth mentioning.
vadorovsky 🐧🦀🐝
@eloquence Totally agree, but even if we stick to being pedantic with names...
I find the "GNU/Linux" name totally pointless. GNU tools are just tools, not the integral part of the operating system. In theory, you could build the Linux kernel with clang, use some non-GNU shell, use musl or LLVM libc and in general get rid of GNU toolchain. These are just fricking tools you can choose. 🤷♂️
So the fact that RMS pushes so much for the name is ridiculous and proves his narcissism.
Adrian Cochrane
@vadorovsky @eloquence I would argue that shells and compilers do define an operating system, more so than a kernel! They certainly have a bigger impact on the developer & user interfaces!
Personally I don't consider the category "Linux" or "GNU/Linux" useful, and I prefer other phrases which draws more useful lines.
But feel free to continue saying "Linux" and employing your retrojustifications.
vadorovsky 🐧🦀🐝
@alcinnz @eloquence But kernels are what define operating system. And I don't think that shells or compilers define it. Otherwise we would need to say MSVC/PowerShell/Windows, GNU/BSD, GNU/MacOS or even LLVM/GNU/MacOS to be consistent, lol.
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